Mold Related Illness with Dr. Jasmine Talei: Rational Wellness Podcast 222
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Dr. Jasmine Talei speaks about Mold Related Illness with Dr. Ben Weitz.
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Podcast Highlights
2:08 Certain symptoms exhibited by her patients make Dr. Talei suspect that there might be a mold related illness: fatigue, constipation and GI discomfort such as gas and bloating, and abdominal pain that are otherwise unexplained. There might be bloating even after drinking water. There might be skin rashes or hives, joint pain, chronic yeast infections, female hormone disruptions, chronic headaches, fatigue, nasal congestion, dry eyes, heart palpitations, anxiety, etc. Dr. Talei has seen a significant correlation between women with breast implants and mold related illness due to the buildup of fungal based biofilms that can develop around the implants. Urinary mycotoxin testing can identify such patients.
12:22 Dr. Talei will use Great Plains mycotoxin test to determine if there is mold in their body. Before having her patients take the urinary mycotoxin test she will have them do an avoidance diet 48 hours prior to taking the test. She will have them eliminate foods that have fungus, such as blue cheese or mushrooms or fermented foods, cheeses, and peanuts. Great Plains does not require this, but she feels that you will get a more accurate test result this way.
17:32 Treatment. Dr. Talei uses a very naturopathic approach to treatment that respects the body’s ability to heal itself. First, patients need to avoid mold and figure out if there is mold in their home or work or car and get them tested and then have the mold remediated. They should also avoid any foods that feed yeast and foods that contain mold, like peanut butter and coffee. Dr. Talei will provide patients with a list of foods to avoid and to incorporate. You want to protect the liver and the other organs of detoxification. You want to make sure that you’re having regular bowel movements, so that you can excrete the mold toxins.
20:10 Constipation. Since mold toxins will be removed into the stool, it is important that you are having regular bowel movements. If the patient is cosnstipated, Dr. Talei will use magnesium citrate and she will add freshly ground flaxseeds and other forms of fiber. The patient needs to stay properly hydrated. She recommends herbal bitters to stimulate your digestion and bile flow. She likes to incorporate bitter vegetables into the diet. It is also important to bring in things ike glutathione, which is the master antioxidant in the body. She likes to use liposomal glutathione by Readisorb one serving twice per day. She will also recommend supporting the brain and the mitochondria, so she will give supplements like L-carnitine, CoQ10 and high DHA fish oil, like the Nordic Naturals product, ProDHA 1000.
25:28 Dr. Talei often uses additional liver support, including milk thistle, sulforaphane from brocolli sprouts, and vitamin C to bowel tolerance.
Dr. Jasmine Talei is a licensed Naturopathic Doctor in Beverly Hills, California who specializes in the skin-gut connection, autoimmune conditions, and mold-related illness. Her website is BeverlyHillsNaturalMedicine.com and her office number is (310) 853-3513.
Dr. Ben Weitz is available for nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also specializing in Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure and also weight loss and also athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111. Dr. Weitz is also available for video or phone consultations.
Podcast Transcript
Dr. Weitz: Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates. To learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com. Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast. Hello, Rational Wellness Podcasters. Thank you for joining us again today.
Our topic for today is mycotoxins and mold-related illness, which is a very hot topic in Functional Medicine today. Our special guest is Dr. Jasmine Talei, who is a California licensed naturopathic doctor. She completed her undergraduate degree in political science and film studies at UCLA, and she received her doctorate in naturopathic medicine from Bastyr University. Dr. Talei focused her clinical training on the skin-gut connection, auto-immune conditions, and mold-related illness. She is currently running a successful practice in Beverly Hills, California. Dr. Talei, thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr. Talei: Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Weitz: How often do you see mycotoxin or mold-related illness in your practice?
Dr. Talei: A few times a week, I would say.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: Yeah. It shows up pretty often. A lot of times, the patients that I see have been to every specialist out there and then they find me, I don’t know how. But basically, they’ve been to every specialist, they’ve run every single lab that there is. Everything is normal, but they’re still very sick. Then they come to me and we run specialty labs, and a lot of times we find out that there is some kind of mold-related illness going on.
Dr. Weitz: Right.
Dr. Talei: So this is something that I’m definitely familiar with.
Dr. Weitz: What’s the first thing that makes you suspect that there might be a mold-related illness?
Dr. Talei: It’s an accumulation of so many different symptoms where the cause is just unknown, [crosstalk 00:02:23]-
Dr. Weitz: What are some of the most common symptoms you see?
Dr. Talei: Yeah. So definitely fatigue. And then there’s constipation or some kind of GI discomfort, whether it’s bloating, gas, abdominal pain, and all unexplained, a lot of times. It’s like bloating after even drinking water sometimes. And then, it’s also hives or rashes, a lot of times heat rashes, like just being under the sun and then getting rashes, joint pain, chronic yeast infections. A lot of females that present with some kind of recurrent infections over and over again, their hormones are fine a lot of times, although sometimes that can be shifted also because of the mycotoxins that act as an endocrine disruptor. Just an accumulation of symptoms that really haven’t shown up elsewhere as… There’s no pathology for it. And then, we do urine test or something like that and figure it out based on that.
Dr. Weitz: When you’re taking the patient’s history, what other things are you looking for that might make you wonder if they might be exposed to mold?
Dr. Talei: An entire review of systems, pretty much from head to toe. So like chronic headaches, fatigue, nasal congestion, dry eyes, heart palpitations, all the GI stuff that we talked about. Anxiety is a huge one. They feel anxious, but there’s no logical reason to it a lot of times. Another thing that I ask about is whether this patient has had a history of breast implants, because this is how I got into this whole field of mycotoxins and mold toxicity, was because I was seeing a lot of patients who had a breast implants at one point, and explanted, and we couldn’t figure out what’s going on with them. They’ve been to every doctor, they’d been put on SSRIs. They’ve been told it’s all in their head, and nothing shows up. I’ve seen a huge correlation between those women that have had breast implants and then taking them out, still not feeling well. Then their mycotoxin levels, when they do the urine test, is skyrocketed. It’s unlike any other test that I’ve seen compared to any other population. So that’s also how I started getting into this field of mold-related illness, was because I saw a lot of patients who had explanted and still didn’t feel good.
Dr. Weitz: Is there something about having breast implants that might make them more susceptible?
Dr. Talei: It could be a controversial topic. A lot of people say breast implant illness exists. A lot of people say it’s nothing, but everyone can agree that biofilms accumulate. If not done properly with the breast implant, whether it’s saline or silicone, biofilms accumulate, and a lot of times those biofilms could be fungal. A lot of times, after you take out the breast implant and you do the capsulectomy, you take out the whole capsule, they send it to pathology and mold doesn’t show up, which is interesting. So it’s not something that has been proven. It’s something that I’ve just seen in clinical practice over and over again. And I wonder if it is because of those biofilms accumulating on those breast implants. Maybe they’re old. Maybe they’re ruptured. Maybe something has gone on with them, or maybe they had this exposure to mold previously and didn’t know about it. And once they put that in, their body reacted to it. So it’s actually-
Dr. Weitz: So you’re suspecting that the mold is growing inside their body, not the-
Dr. Talei: It could be or it’s something that’s triggering that.
Dr. Weitz: And exposed to mycotoxins-
Dr. Talei: Yeah.
Dr. Weitz: … in their arm or something.
Dr. Talei: Honestly, at this point, it hasn’t been proven. It’s just clinically what I’ve seen. There’s definitely some kind of correlation between those two. I don’t know if it’s accumulating. It’s possible because they say biofilms accumulate. So maybe it is accumulating. But maybe it’s just some kind of past exposure and this breast implant, it’s triggering that. I don’t know exactly what the mechanism of action is right there, like exactly what’s happening, but it’s definitely something interesting that I keep seeing over and over again.
Dr. Weitz: Do you ask them questions about their home or office, if they might be getting exposed to mold?
Dr. Talei: All the time. My questions are basically, “So do you have any known exposure to mold?” Most people say, “Not really.” And then I tell them, “Well, let’s think back to when you grew up, the home that you grew up in. Were you in an old home? Were you in an apartment where maybe you weren’t in charge of knowing whether there was mold, like you didn’t have much say over it? Or maybe you were in a school that was old and you were maybe in the library studying. Maybe that had a lot of mold. Maybe you drive an old car, and every time you turn on that air conditioning, the mold spores are just blowing at you, or a place of work. So I walk them through that and try to determine if there’s any possibility that they’ve had this past exposure to mold. A lot of times, I’ll ask about family history and also determine if they have some kind of genetic susceptibility, which it’s important to know as a doctor. But also to determine maybe there’s someone else in that household that they grew up in, who all has some kind of unexplained symptom. Oftentimes, I will hear about that. I’ll hear, “Oh yes, we lived with our grandma. Our grandmother always had migraines, and we have no idea why. She always just had these migraines. So it’s interesting to see like, oh, if anyone else in that family or anyone else in that same household had any kind of symptoms.
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Dr. Weitz: Cool. And then, how do you recommend they test their home if they suspect that there could be mold there?
Dr. Talei: I think it’s most ideal to hire someone, have them come in and do all the tests. There are many different tests that you can do. I wouldn’t say I’m an expert in this. But they do the air sample, and then there’s one that they take a piece of the place or they check for not dew, but just the dampness. Yeah. There’s experts that come in and do this, but then people who don’t want someone else coming in, you can always buy a kit off of Amazon for like 10 bucks. A lot of times, it’s an air sample. You open it up, you put it in to let’s say your bathroom for a few hours, you close it. It comes with instructions, and then you send it off to the lab. They check it to see if there’s any kind of mold in that air sample. So there’s definitely many options out there, but just because if you have this mold-related illness and you have the susceptibility, I never really encourage people to do it themselves because, well, what if that creates more problems? I do tell people that if they do bring in someone and they want to take a piece of that to test their… Like they want to break down a piece of the wall, don’t do it unless they’re going to fix it immediately because you don’t want to just leave this open space, this open wall, where if it is mold, all the mold spores are just going around everywhere and you’re breathing that in and it’s going to just worsen everything.
Dr. Weitz: Yeah. I think you’re probably better to start with some of those tests you get from Home Depot, and then the ERMI tests where you sample the dust and send it in. That way, if you find that there’s mold, then maybe you can go to the expense of hiring somebody.
Dr. Talei: Yeah.
Dr. Weitz: How do you test the person to see if they’re having potential mycotoxins? I think you mentioned that you do the urinary mycotoxin test?
Dr. Talei: I do. I do urinary mycotoxin test.
Dr. Weitz: Which lab do you use?
Dr. Talei: I’ve used a few different ones in the past. Right now I mostly use Great Plains. I like that one a lot. It shows you the most, I guess, popular mycotoxins. It doesn’t test for all of them, but it does test for those big bad guys and basically see-
Dr. Weitz: The downside right now is they’re taking five weeks to get back-
Dr. Talei: They’re taking so long. Don’t even get me started on that. But yeah. But they’re a good company. I do like to use them for… It tests for different metabolites of mold for these mycotoxins. Before doing that test, I always put patients on an avoidance diet to make sure that it’s as accurate as possible. Now, Great Plains doesn’t require this, but I just want to be as thorough as possible with the patients that I see, to make sure that they’re not ingesting some kind of fungal food, like they’re not having blue cheese, or mushrooms, or fermented food right before, and then they take the urine test and they pee it out and then it’s a false positive. I also-
Dr. Weitz: What is that diet that you put them on?
Dr. Talei: Before, it’s just basically a few foods to avoid, and that’s like certain cheeses, peanuts, mushrooms, certain from fermented foods. And this is only 48 hours prior to the test. I always tell patients, “Based on your symptoms, and based on your history,” like we got a good history, “this is most likely some kind of mold going on. And this test can’t always 100% determine that you have this mold related illness.” That’s always an important thing to keep in mind with people, because if they’re not able to excrete, then it won’t show up on this urine test, because this is basically based on your ability to excrete these mycotoxins. So a lot of times, we do that to determine, okay, maybe certain mycotoxins will show up and we want to address those. But I also always explain that it’s not 100% that you don’t have this mold-related illness if this comes back negative. It’s just based on your excretion. We can always retest. We could do some treatments, see if your pathways of excretion are working better, like you’re able to detox, and then we’ll do the test.
Dr. Weitz: Okay. Are there any other tests that you recommend? Do you ever run the serum tests for CIRS?
Dr. Talei: I don’t. I don’t think it’s necessary. Sometimes I’ll do serum tests that check for Stachybotrys, or through Cyrex, do an array 12, or one of those things that check your blood, to see if you have some kind of antibody against these molds. But when it comes to diagnosing, I don’t think it’s necessary to do all these other tests, unless the patient wants to, which I completely respect because a lot of times you want to run these labs. That’s totally fine. But I usually try to do the least amount of tests because it also gets very costly. I just don’t think it’s always necessary. But with that, yeah, I don’t usually do that one.
Dr. Weitz: Right. Yeah. I understand. I think even at a discount cash lab, the series of those serum labs that are typically recommended, it’s going to run about 800 bucks.
Dr. Talei: Yeah.
Dr. Weitz: What is the relationship between fungal overgrowth and mycotoxins?
Dr. Talei: Mycotoxins are a fungus. A lot of times, like talking about testing, if I do a mycotoxin test, I might couple that with doing an organic acids test. Organic acids test, especially if you do Great Plains, checks for these metabolites of fungal bacteria neurotransmitters. On those, the metabolites of fungus, sometimes you’ll see that it comes up positive for candida. Well, for arabinose, which is the metabolite of candida. And then you’ll see that they also have high levels of mycotoxins in their mycotoxin tests. So there’s definitely an overlap, and that’s why when it comes to treatment, a lot of the treatment is very similar. You’re fighting off that fungus. You’re starving the body from fungus. So there’s definitely a huge correlation between the two because mold is a fungus.
Dr. Weitz: Right? Let’s talk about treatment. What are your treatment approaches?
Dr. Talei: I’m extremely, I would say, extremely naturopathic in my approach. I always say it’s very noninvasive compared to a lot of things out there. That’s just because I really believe in the body’s ability to heal itself if given the right tools. First and foremost, I make sure that patients are avoiding mold. First thing, get your house tested. If you suspect it’s your car, get that tested. If you feel like it’s a place of work, figure that out. It’s so important to know, because that is the biggest obstacle to cure, is being in a place that is full of mold and you’re just inhaling it. So whatever you do, you’re protecting yourself, you’re still being exposed. And then also avoiding it in your food. So I put people on a very strict diet and I tell them, “This is not forever. This is only until we can fight this. So it’s not a life sentence,” because I know otherwise it is, it’s a difficult diet to follow through with, but it works.
That’s basically avoiding any foods that feed yeast in your body, so any fungus in your body. But also foods that contain mold, so like peanut butter. Peanuts are huge. I believe it’s Aspergillus, I forget the name. But basically, peanuts are grown in a very moldy environment. And so, if you’re having peanuts all the time, you’re not helping the situation. Coffee, so many coffee brands out there are full of mold, but there’s a lot of other ones that are tested for mold.
So finding out which foods are mold free as well and going about it that way. I give patients a whole list of foods to avoid and then foods to incorporate. Foods to incorporate into your diet include a lot of colorful vegetables that provide your body with nutrients, but also help with the whole detoxification process, because that’s what you’re trying to do. That’s first step, diet and just making sure you’re not in a moldy environment. Then protecting just your overall body, your liver, your organs of detoxification. So your liver, making sure that you’re sweating, making sure that you’re having regular bowel movements, more than two a day. A lot of people that struggle with mold-related illness tend to be constipated. So getting those bowels going so that you can detox these toxins from your body.
Dr. Weitz: What do you do if the patient’s constipated? What’s your go-to strategy?
Dr. Talei: I start slow. I start off with things like magnesium citrate, which has an affinity for the GI system. I do flaxseeds, freshly ground flax seeds, or some kind of fiber. I make sure the patient is staying hydrated, drinking lots and lots of water. I do a lot of bitters. I do this in tincture form, doing bitters before you eat. 10 to 15 minutes before you eat, having bitters to stimulate your digestion, to basically tell your body it’s time to eat throughout those enzymes, those digestive enzymes, so you can break down your food, digest, and absorb it.
Dr. Weitz: It also stimulates bile flow, which helps clear toxins.
Dr. Talei: Exactly. It’s so important. Also vegetables that are bitters, incorporate those into your diet. But a lot of times, honestly, it’s just as simple as just drink more water. Water helps so much. And then, if still we can’t get it going, still having constipation, then bringing in some kind of herbs like aloe that are a laxative, but not long term because your body does create some kind of resistance or just dependency on these laxative herbs. So just bringing these in for a short period of time. I’m a huge fan of green tea for getting your bowels going, but also for all the properties of green tea, like anti-fungal, anti-bacterial. It’s just so good for so many things. So incorporating that into the diet. I work with the individual to see what it is that they’re doing exactly and how we can make little tweaks to really get them flowing. And by flowing, I mean just having bowel movements. Yeah, so that is extremely important. And then bringing things in for detoxification. So like things such as glutathione, master antioxidant in the body. Really just helping with detoxification. A lot of times people can react to that if you bring it in too fast. With mold, it’s so important to bring in things slowly because these patients are patients that are extremely sensitive. So you want to bring in things one at a time and really pay attention to how that patient is feeling, because sometimes it’s unpredictable. You can’t always tell.
Dr. Weitz: What’s your favorite glutathione product and how much do you tend to use?
Dr. Talei: I use a teaspoon of that liposomal glutathione by Readisorb. I would say I like it a lot. But in general, glutathione’s so sulfur. That smell and taste, I can’t say I love it. But it works and it’s great. Sometimes I will recommend for patients to nebulize glutathione. I set them up with a nebulizer and the glutathione, and they will nebulize it daily or a few times a day. That really helps to get into the system. And then-
Dr. Weitz: The oral glutathione, how many milligrams and then how many times a day?
Dr. Talei: The oral one, I do twice a day. I forget the milligrams off the top of my head, because I’m so used to saying… I always go to that brand and I say a teaspoon.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: Yeah. But it’s the Readisorb one.
Dr. Weitz: Okay. And then what else do you use?
Dr. Talei: And then I also protect the brain, protect mitochondria. Just give patient energy. So doing things like L-carnitine, CoQ10, protecting the brain with supplements like DHA. So omega 3 fatty acids, but high in DHA because that supports cognition and eye health. That’s so important for people that have some kind of issue with maybe memory, doing things like phosphatidylcholine.
Dr. Weitz: What’s your favorite high DHA omega supplement?
Dr. Talei: I use the Nordic Naturals one, the ProDHA 1000.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: I believe it’s 940.
Dr. Weitz: Okay. What’s the dosage you use?
Dr. Talei: I do two gel caps.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: Yeah. Daily, but in general. But then it could vary per patient. That’s why our medicine, it’s so individualized for each person. Like sometimes I might want to do more. Sometimes I want to do less. Sometimes I might not even do that at all. But in general, I would say just the two gel caps.
Dr. Weitz: Right. Do you do any other liver support?
Dr. Talei: Yes, I do. I’m huge with milk thistle at a high dose, like 900 or even higher than that.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: Because it’s so important to support that liver. I’m a huge fan of milk thistle just because it has so many benefits for the liver, and people don’t seem to react to it as much.
Dr. Weitz: What about sulforaphane?
Dr. Talei: Sorry, what was that?
Dr. Weitz: Sulforaphane?
Dr. Talei: Sulforaphane is amazing. Broccoli sprouts all the way.
Dr. Weitz: So what-
Dr. Talei: Just make sure you clean them well.
Dr. Weitz: Yeah, it’s actually a whole issue to make broccoli sprouts.
Dr. Talei: It is. I think it’s E. coli that they’ve been finding all the time if you don’t clean it well enough.
Dr. Weitz: Right. Yeah. Maybe how do you clean it? Some people recommend cleaning it with bleach, and that doesn’t sound very good.
Dr. Talei: Right. No. I wouldn’t use bleach for that. I do vinegar for certain veggies, just white vinegar to-
Dr. Weitz: What’s your favorite milk thistle product?
Dr. Talei: That one always varies. Honestly, it just depends on what’s in stock. I wouldn’t say I have a brand favorite. I’ve used Gaia. I’ve used DaVinci. I’ve used Pure Encapsulations. I’ve used so many different things. And then, sometimes I want to mix it with something else. So I’ll look for something like maybe with dandelion or something like that. That one always varies. And then, doing vitamin C. I do vitamin C until bowel tolerance.
Dr. Weitz: Oh, okay.
Dr. Talei: Yeah. And then I tell patients to back off from that. But usually, in… Or if they don’t want to experiment, then two grams per day, two to three grams per day. I also do Celtic sea salt. Well, any kind of sea salt in your water, just a teaspoon.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: To just make sure that you’re getting minerals, especially because a lot of times, I’ll tell patients to do things like sauna therapy that can deplete your body of those minerals. So making sure that you’re staying hydrated and you’re having those electrolytes, those minerals from that salt. And then, a lot of times we’ll see, okay, hormones are affected. So working on hormones at the same time, because a lot of times you’re just so miserable, so you work backwards in some way. You meet the patient where they’re at, saying like, “Okay, this patient can’t fall asleep. So maybe their progesterone levels are low. So let’s start off with doing some kind of progesterone,” or something like that, to just help with quality of life first. And then, from there you get them to sleep, and then you work one at a time. Talking about sleep, huge fan of melatonin also at high doses, so 10 to 20.
Dr. Weitz: 10 to 20. Okay.
Dr. Talei: Because of that antioxidant effect. There’s some studies about that fighting specifically addressing ochratoxin A and a few other mycotoxins as well. So I do like to use that. If there are [crosstalk 00:28:55]-
Dr. Weitz: Do you find some patients get nightmares at 20 milligrams?
Dr. Talei: I wouldn’t say nightmares, but some people say they have more vivid dreams. Some people, no complaints at all. It doesn’t even affect their sleep, like they fell asleep easily, before, with three milligrams, but now we’re just upping to adjust for that antioxidant effect. So it really just depends on the scenario.
For patients that have, let’s say, high cortisol levels at nighttime, like all of a sudden they’re awake and they feel anxious and there’s so much going on, I might do certain adaptogens that bring down that cortisol level before going to sleep and giving that patient the calming effect to get good sleep, because regulating that whole circadian rhythm is so important to be able to function, and just-
Dr. Weitz: What are some of your favorite products there?
Dr. Talei: For cortisol lowering?
Dr. Weitz: Yeah.
Dr. Talei: I would say ITI, Integrative Therapeutics, Cortisol Manager.
Dr. Weitz: Right. Yeah.
Dr. Talei: Huge fan.
Dr. Weitz: [crosstalk 00:29:58] product too.
Dr. Talei: Yeah. I’m a huge fan of that one.
Dr. Weitz: Okay. And then, what about binders?
Dr. Talei: So binders, I try to start with flax. I try to start with fiber, things like that. Just very easy going. I’ll use activated charcoal once in a while. It’s never my go-to, only if I think it’s necessary because some patients are already… They have this issue of malabsorption because they have GI dysfunction. There’s something going on. So why a lot of times I don’t want to get rid of the nutrients that they may be having through supplements and stuff like that. So I don’t always go to activated charcoal right away. If I think it’s necessary, then I’ll bring that in and then tell them to take that away from other nutrients, food and things like that.
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Dr. Weitz: Have you used Ultra Binder or some of the other binders on the market?
Dr. Talei: What does Ultra Binder have in it?
Dr. Weitz: It’s the one from Quicksilver. It has a whole bunch of stuff. It has a pectin, and it has charcoal, and it has [inaudible 00:32:43]. Yeah. I forgot there’s a whole bunch of products that are designed to help with metals and mold.
Dr. Talei: Yeah. I haven’t used that one.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: I use Quicksilver sometimes for mercury toxicity or just heavy metals in general. Quicksilver is amazing with detoxification protocols. They have some great stuff out there.
Dr. Weitz: Right. Okay. With your typical patient with a mold toxicity, how long do you find treatment usually lasts for?
Dr. Talei: This can vary. There are some patients, they go on the diet, they’re completely fine. That’s it. They’re good.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: But then we still… We support the liver. We get bowels moving, things like that. We might want to do a stool test, work on GI function and just make sure that this is not causing a problem later on. And then, there’s other people that it takes a while. It can take a few months to years. It really depends on the person and the environment that they’re in, the support system that they have, their ability to cope with stress, how much they’re willing to actually implement what I tell them. It’s very, very individualized.
Dr. Weitz: Would you say on average, how long does it take for the average person to clear mycotoxins?
Dr. Talei: I would say six months until you feel a difference, on average.
Dr. Weitz: Oh, okay. Six months till you feel [crosstalk 00:34:22]-
Dr. Talei: And that’s-
Dr. Weitz: … completely better. You’re just feeling some level of improvement.
Dr. Talei: Yeah.
Dr. Weitz: And then, on the average total treatment, a year?
Dr. Talei: Yeah. I would say a year.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: On average. But it could be way less and it could be way more. But I would say yes, on average a year.
Dr. Weitz: Of the patients that you treat for mycotoxins, what percentage of them get complete resolution?
Dr. Talei: I would say a majority of them.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: Yeah.
Dr. Weitz: When they don’t resolve, what do you usually find is the issue.
Dr. Talei: They’re not really doing what I ask them to do.
Dr. Weitz: That’s the case with all the protocols, right?
Dr. Talei: Right.
Dr. Weitz: “Yeah, I’m doing exactly what you asked and it [crosstalk 00:35:12]-
Dr. Talei: No, and then I tell them to… Exactly. I tell them to come in and they’re like, “Oh, I eat this and this and that.” Well, I’m like, “Well, this was step one.” But I get it. It’s not easy. It’s not easy at all.
Dr. Weitz: “Are you taking your glutathione?” “Oh, yes, definitely.” “Well, do you need more?” “No, no. I have plenty.” “Well, you had a two-week supply and it’s now six weeks later.”
Dr. Talei: Right.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: Yeah.
Dr. Weitz: Let’s see. I think those are the main questions I had prepared. Do you have any other comments or thoughts you want to talk about?
Dr. Talei: I don’t think so. Yeah.
Dr. Weitz: Okay. Good, good, good.
Dr. Talei: Oh, I guess a lot of… We didn’t talk about skin. I said like hives and-
Dr. Weitz: Sure. [crosstalk 00:35:59].
Dr. Talei: … heat rashes. But a lot of times, we’ll see like chronic acne or eczema, just a lot of issues that appear in our skin. Or really hives for absolutely no reason. Things like that can really tell us there’s something going on, especially when you can’t resolve it. Like you go to a dermatologist and they give you this steroid or this cream and nothing works. And it keeps coming back, whether it’s year after year or it’s newly onset. Just being observant of your skin health tells us so, so much about what’s going on.
Dr. Weitz: When do you start thinking a patient with eczema might have mycotoxins?
Dr. Talei: Depending on their other symptoms as well. I’ve yet to see a patient present with only one symptom. There’s always something else going on.
Dr. Weitz: Right. Let’s say you get a patient. They come in. They have some of these gut symptoms and they have eczema. Do you start by working on their gut, doing a stool test, and then you end up with mycotoxins? Or is mycotoxins in a back of your head as a possibility off the bat?
Dr. Talei: It’s always in the back of my head off the bat, just because I see it so much. But I might not always say like, “Okay, let’s do a mycotoxin test.” I might say, “Okay, let’s do a stool test,” or, “Let’s do an organic acids test,” because I’m thinking at the same time, your stool test might show us if there’s some kind of fungus going on. If there’s some kind of fungus, then maybe we can…
Even if I’m not diagnosing you, I’m not telling you that you have this mold-related illness, I’m still treating you for that fungal overgrowth. And by treating you for that fungal overgrowth, which is very, very similar, we’re still getting the results. So it’s not necessarily important to me to tell you that you have this exact thing, unless that’s something that the patient wants. For me, it’s important to just get the patient better.
I don’t think we need to do all these like test after test after test. Unless that’s what motivates the patient, then I completely understand it. Or if we do an organic acid test and we see all this bacterial overgrowth, but then we see like arabinose is high in that whole first page with the fungal and the yeast markers. All of those are high, then I just think, “Okay, this is a huge fungal issue,” because also a lot of times when there is fungus, you see high levels of bacterial overgrowth.
You see things like SIBO happening because if this fungal overgrowth is occurring, you’re not able to create that good bacteria. You’re just bad on top of bad. Basically it’s like a whole domino effect. So my treatment-
Dr. Weitz: What is some of your go-to protocols for treating fungal overgrowth?
Dr. Talei: It’s very similar to mycotoxins. So, so similar.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: But depending also on their symptoms. So, oh, okay, if they’re constipated, getting them going, supporting their liver, just getting things working. I do things like glutathione, but then I do herbs that are antifungal, antibacterial-
Dr. Weitz: [crosstalk 00:39:20].
Dr. Talei: Oh, okay. So things like oregano. Huge oregano fan. Caprylic acid is a big one for a fungus. Maybe that’s the difference. I don’t always use that for mold. For mold, I use more like oregano and other herbs, thyme and all sorts of different things. And then, Pau d’arco, like mim, things like that. But then when it comes to fungus, I might do a combination with the oregano, and the barberry, and then all of this, but then caprylic acid in there too.
Dr. Weitz: Do you have a favorite combo product or a couple of combo products?
Dr. Talei: I have a few. I like CandidaStat, I think by Vitanica. There’s also SIBOtic. I know it’s for SIBO, but I like the herbs in there.
Dr. Weitz: Okay.
Dr. Talei: Yeah.
Dr. Weitz: Is that the one from, what, Priority-
Dr. Talei: Priority One.
Dr. Weitz: Yeah. Okay.
Dr. Talei: Yeah.
Dr. Weitz: Okay, cool. Great. How can our listeners, viewers get ahold of you and find out how they can see you and do a consult with you, or find out more about what you have to offer?
Dr. Talei: Yeah. My website is beverlyhillsnaturalmedicine.com. Email, all that information is there. Or on Instagram at drjasminetalei.
Dr. Weitz: Okay, great. Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us.
Dr. Talei: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This has been great.
Dr. Weitz: Thank you listeners for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast. Please take a few minutes and go to Apple Podcasts and give us a five-star ratings and review. That would really help us so more people can find us in their listing of health podcasts. I’d also like to let everybody know that I now have a few openings for new clients for nutritional consultations. If you’re interested, please call my office in Santa Monica at 310 395 3111. That’s 310 395 3111. Take one of the few openings we have now for a individual consultation for a nutrition with Dr. Ben Weitz. Thank you and see you next week.
