Dr. Eric Fete discusses How Muscle Influences Aging, Performance and Longevity with Dr. Ben Weitz.

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Podcast Highlights

In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, host Dr. Ben Weitz converses with Dr. Eric Fete, an osteopathic physician and founder of Primex, on the topic of muscle health’s impact on aging, performance, and longevity. Dr. Fete discusses the role of muscle as an endocrine organ, its anti-inflammatory effects, and the significance of muscle for metabolic health. The conversation also touches on hormone testing and optimization, the benefits of peptides, and effective strategies for promoting longevity. Dr. Fete emphasizes the importance of natural health practices over synthetic drugs and surgery, and offers practical advice on maintaining muscle mass, managing hormones, and enhancing overall wellness.
00:00 Introduction to the Rational Wellness Podcast
00:26 The Importance of Muscle Health with Dr. Eric Fete
01:49 Muscle as an Endocrine Organ
02:37 Metabolic Benefits of Muscle
04:18 Maintaining Muscle Mass as You Age
06:05 Strength Training and Nutrition
08:13 Hormone Testing and Optimization
10:18 The Role of Testosterone and Other Hormones
15:13 Environmental and Lifestyle Factors
23:09 Testosterone Therapy Options
25:25 Transitioning Away from Pellets
26:02 Exploring Oral Testosterone Formulations
26:35 Introduction to Peptides
27:37 Popular Peptides and Their Benefits
29:47 Peptides for Gut Health
31:40 Peptides for Testosterone and Libido
33:33 Managing Testosterone Side Effects
35:29 Testosterone and Prostate Health
37:18 Testosterone and Cardiovascular Health
38:08 Lifestyle Strategies for Longevity
40:04 Supplements for Longevity
45:46 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
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Dr. Eric Fete is an Osteopathic Physician and the founder of PrimeX, a company focused on preventive health, age management, and peak performance. His expertise includes Hormone therapy, Functional Medicine, nutrition, and peptides aimed at improving overall wellness and the prevention of disease. He is a strong advocate for natural health practices over synthetic drugs and surgery. He is certified in Age Management Medicine, Advanced Bio Identical Hormone Replacement Therapy, and Medical Peptide Therapy and is a member of the Seeds Scientific Research and Performance Institute (SSRP). His website is DrEricPrimeX.com

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz:  Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

Hello, rational Wellness podcasters. Our topic for today is how Muscle health influences aging, performance, and longevity with Dr. Eric Fete. Dr. Eric Fete is a osteopathic physician founder of Primex, a company focused on preventative health, age management, and peak performance.  His expertise includes hormone therapy, functional medicine. Nutrition and Peptides aiming at improving overall wellness and the prevention of disease. He’s a strong advocate for natural health practices over synthetic drugs and surgery, and he’s certified in Age Management medicine, advanced bioidentical hormone replacement therapy and medical peptide therapy, and he’s a member of the Seeds Scientific Research and Performance Institute, Dr. Fete. Thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Fete: Hey, thank you, sir. Appreciate you having me on. Very grateful, love listening to your podcast and looking to have some fun and hopefully provide some value to your listeners.

Dr. Weitz: Sounds good. So why don’t you tell us why muscle is so important for longevity, which is for sure something I strongly believe in.

Dr. Fete: Yeah, definitely with your background, if you could definitely speak to that for sure. Um, yeah, so basically I feel it’s often neglected. I think people are starting to come around to the fact of muscle is actually an endocrine organ. I think in the last number of years we’ve thought of fat that way.  We always thought it’s fat is just blah, but it’s actually an endocrine organ as well. Secretes a lot of what we call cytokines or adipokines that actually have an influence on other parts of her body. And muscle is the same way. So in that regard, muscle’s almost, you know, the skin’s probably the largest, but you know, the mar muscle is actually one of the largest endocrine organs in the body.  So, you know, traditionally people think of muscle as, oh, it’s just, you know, I. It’s just for looks, you know, showing off your, your, your guns and whatnot. And, and that one look good in a bathing suit, but it’s actually a lot more than that. So healthy muscle tissues is above and beyond. What’s, what’s more important.  So it’s just not just the muscle itself, how much, but the functionality of it and most people are aware of. You know, obviously movements and being able to perform your activities of daily living, et cetera, of course. But, um, lot, a lot of people are also aware, of course, that it improves, you know, insulin resistance improves your glucose sensitivity by upgrading upregulating those receptors to handle blood sugar.

This has been fairly known, especially obviously as you know, in the bodybuilding space, et cetera. To do what’s called nutrient partitioning to help. So that’s why so many these, you know, the body bills can eat so much, right? You know, they’re, they’re partitioning their, their fuel, they eat into their muscles instead of their fat.

[00:03:00] Um, but muscle also has, you know, an uh, uh, anti-inflammatory effect and one of the newer things, you know, and the number that’s probably been around for some time, but they secrete also, uh, cytokines with or are called mykines. And these mykines have a lot of effects on the body as well. Which have a lot of health benefits and, you know, age management benefits in terms of helping the body to stay strong and young.

And these mild kinds affect every part of the body. They affect the brain, the bones, the liver, the intestines. Um, they have all these funky names, right? You know, um, you know, of course people have heard of like, like Irisin and interleukin six. Uh, they can affect BDNF, which is a brain drive neurotropic factor in the brain.

Um, you know, it’s all these other little, they have all these names, but basically they perform all these health benefits in the body. And that’s why we think that. Everybody knows how good exercise is, right? Why it’s so good for you, but this is one of the reasons, the hidden reasons why. ’cause when you exert yourself, when you perform.

You know, muscular activity, obviously you’re improving your, your nutrient capacity like we were just talking about, but also these secretes, these myokines and these mykines have these, these endocrine like effects, [00:04:00] almost like hormone like effects on the body to do all the things that we’ve known exercise can do.

We know that exercise can reduce inflammation, improve brain health, make your bones stronger, improve your digestion, all these other things. And this might be one of the ways why, kind of like. They’re like little signaling molecules, so not a lot of people talking about muscle as an organ of longevity, uh, above and beyond just aesthetics.  So I, I, that’s kind of why I took it upon myself to kind of do phrase, what I call muscle medicines, can try to get people aware of the, the health benefits of maintaining muscle mass and we can talk about, you know, sarcopenia and, and that as well. But that’s, that’s the big focus.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, you mentioned the metabolic advantages of having muscle, and so if everybody’s not familiar, one of the important benefits of having good muscle is that the muscle cells.  Take in blood glucose to use for energy, and that helps manage your blood sugar levels and that reduces your risk of diabetes and helps reduce insulin levels. So muscle is very important for [00:05:00] metabolic health and that of course is a big factor in, uh, brain health and hormonal health, et cetera.

Dr. Fete: Yeah, I mean, we all know how bad, you know, what an epidemic insulin resistance diabetes is.  What is it like over 50% of the population is at least insulin resistant. So it’s a huge problem. So even diabetics can utilize exercise to improve their insulin sensitivity, their blood sugar, which of course is gonna reduce their inflammation, improve their metabolic health, and reduce their risk of cardiovascular disease and all the comorbidities.  So anybody can do it and um, you know, you don’t have to. You know, spend, I always tell you don’t have to spend hours in the gym. You have just a 15 minute workout. You can reap the benefits of it. So, um, but we wanna build muscle and burn the fat because as we get older, unfortunately we get sarcopenia, which is the loss of muscle as we age, and then we get.

Fat. We gain fat and it’s the opposite. So we wanna kind of flip the, flip the switch. We wanna burn off that fat bill at that muscle as much as we can while we’re at any age. But certainly the younger you start, the better. So when we get older, we’re not able, we’re not weak and fat and thin. ’cause that’s, that’s not healthy for many reasons we’ll talk about.

Dr. Weitz:  So what are some of the most important things to do and mistakes to avoid as you get older to maintaining muscle?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, so I think, you know, most guys, it’s a little bit of an easier conversation. Most guys are familiar with strength training. So number one of course is strength training, some type of resistance exercise.  I mean, cardio is great, it’s fantastic. Um, but it’s not gonna maintain that muscle mass. You definitely have to lift heavy things, right? And it doesn’t have to be, you don’t have to be slamming big deadlifts in the gym. You could do kettlebells, you could do bands, uh, even, even something like, you know, pils or power yoga is something to work.  Those muscle body weight exercises are great. So the biggest thing is strength training. And number two is adequate protein intake. So. Most guys are pretty easy to talk. My, my, I always have sometimes have to sway my female clients about this. ’cause a lot of women still have in their minds those myths, right?

They’re like, oh my gosh, I don’t want to put on muscle, I don’t want to get big. Right. You know, so I’m like, I have to explain that it’s not gonna happen. Right? The most important thing is strength training. Number two is nutrition, adequate protein, and adequate. There’s a whole, that’s a whole conversation of itself.  But the biggest mistake I see is not getting enough protein and not eating a whole food-based diet. You know, avoiding the junk, eating the real food. Um, sleep and recovery are massively important because, you know, you could be training, you could be working out, but if you’re only sleeping five hours a night, or you’re waking up, toss and turn, um, you’re not gonna, you’re not gonna build muscle, at least not very effectively.  So you have to sleep and then you have to recover. You know, stress management is, is big. And you probably see this too. So many of my clients are just, they’re stressed, even though they don’t quote unquote, feel stressed. It’s definitely affecting them. They’re. They have what we call sympathetic dominance, or just excessive cortisol, excessive stress, and it’s wearing ’em down.

They’re, they’re fatigued, they’re having cravings, they’re not sleeping. Sex life is off. So, got, you know, I’m a big, uh, I’m a big superhero. I like superheroes. I’ve always been into superheroes. So like, everybody knows Superman, the big red s right? So I call it the double S on the chest. So sleeping stress is like my, my two like kryptonite, things to attack, right?

So gotta get those down. And then I, obviously, I do a lot of hormone optimization too. So as, as a lot of my clientele are in their, you know, as a. Definitely in forties, fifties and up, you know, we have to monitor hormones ’cause if, uh, there’s a hormone deficiency, that can definitely, uh, lead to some sarcopenia, loss of muscle.  So sometimes that’s a missing [00:08:00] piece. And, uh, whether it’s a nutrient deficiency, uh, or a toxin or maybe some gut inflammation, or quite commonly a hormone deficiency that needs to be addressed as well. So those are, and there’s some other things we can talk about. Those are like the big ones. I see the, the biggest thing to move the needle.

Dr. Weitz: So let’s go into the discussion about hormones and we’re gonna focus mainly on male hormones in this discussion. ’cause those are the hormones that are more related to muscle, correct? Yep. So, um, before we get into the use of testosterone as a supplement. What are some, well, to begin with? How do we test for hormones and what things you look at?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, great question. And, and before we, before I forget too, estrogen, estradiol is very important for, has, uh, some anabolic effect as well as does growth hormone, uh, and some of the other hormones as well. Thyroid, they’re all important, but most people think of testosterone, right? And, uh. A lot of the benefits of testosterone come from its metabolites, specifically like Estrodiol and DHT or dihydrotestosterone has a massive anabolic effect too.  So [00:09:00] for me, when it comes down to testing, I mean, number one is, as with anything, I always look at symptoms, right? Because that’s the most important thing. Whether it’s looking at thyroid health or testosterone or estrogen, what do they have symptoms of? A deficiency. That’s the most important thing. ’cause I, you know, you wanna treat.

The patient, right? Not, not worry about the numbers, but the numbers do come into play. And so I will do a, a serum blood test on, on my patients. I’m concerned about a deficiency is the best, the best way to do it, um, to kind of look at the numbers, so it doesn’t really matter when or what time of day. I mean, classically, you’ll read about getting it done first thing in the morning.

Um, but you know, there is a, a waxing and waning, a circadian rhythm of hormones. So as long as you know when they did it, you can kind of correlate that. Um, but basically a serum blood test is gonna give you the best, best test of all your hormones. Um, there’s things you can look at from metabolites of them.  Things like the Dutch test and salivary salivary testing. They’re good for metabolites, but the, the serum testing is gonna give you the best overall picture of what’s in their blood. Now, it doesn’t necessarily tell what’s in their cells, and I see this a lot. So someone, for example, thyroid’s a good, a good example, they have their [00:10:00] numbers in their screen are normal.  But they still have all the symptoms. Well, they’ve got thyroid in their blood, but it’s just not getting into the cell, so we have to figure out why it’s not getting into the cell. Right. So there’s, they’re still clinically hypothyroid, but even though they’re quote unquote normal on paper, so I see this a lot.

Dr. Weitz: So, okay, so what numbers do you like to look at? So you measure testosterone total and free,

Dr. Fete: correct?

Dr. Weitz: Um, DHEA. You measure estradiol and progesterone.

Dr. Fete: Yeah, my women, I’ll, I’ll measure those as well. Um, what about within. Yeah, I mean you can check in men and, and I do, it’s includes this part of my panel, I’ll look at it as well.  Um, but testosterone, the biggest thing is making sure you get both, like you mentioned, the total and the free. And then you look at the DHG as well to kinda look at those downstream metabolites of testosterone. Right? And the other one that sometimes gets forgotten about is SHBG or sex hormone binding globulin.

That’s important, right? Um, you know, you read and you probably, you know, familiar like from decades ago in the bodybuilding forms are everybody’s talking about, oh my gosh, you gotta. Lower your [00:11:00] SHBG ’cause it’s binding up all that free testosterone. Right? Well that’s kind of a, I mean, yes and no, and it’s kind of false because it actually, when the testosterone is bound to that SHBG, but it still has an effect, it still binds to the receptor and has an uh, a hormonal effect, which is positive.

So, and a lot of studies are indicating that they’ll higher your SHBG, the reduced, you have a reduced risk of cancer, cardiovascular disease, and other things. So you don’t wanna lower it. It’s better to be high. And now can it lower your free testosterone? Yeah. But like I said, it still has an effect. But that being said, you still want both of them optimal.

So my men, you know, the typical range is somewhere, usually anywhere. And they’re all gonna be different from lab to lab, but anywhere from 300 to a thousand, give or take. Um, and again, most of my guys, you want them to be at the, at least the midpoint or upper. But again, that’s where symptoms questionnaire comes in because every guy’s different as you, as you know.

So, um, one guy may be at three 50 or you know, 400 or so and feel great. Yeah, everything’s great, you know, he feels wonderful. Great sex drive, good energy. He’s working out hard. Another guy at four 50 may feel like total crap. Uh, and that’s a lot has to do with epigenetics. Uh, how their [00:12:00] metabolism, their SHP jet levels, and a lot has to do with genetics, right?

They have this something called a, a CAG repeat, or a CAG, repeat on their genetic code. And depending if it’s short or long, that’ll d tell ’em, determine if they need a higher testosterone level or lower testosterone. There’s no real easy way to test for that. So it’s just really, again, coming down to symptoms.

That’s why, you know, a lot of guys look for that number. You know, it’s, you know, I dunno if it’s like a, I joke with my ma, my men, about this, right? I don’t think it’s just a guy thing. We’re stuck on sports. It’s like, what’s the score, man? Everybody’s like, what’s my number, doc? I’m like, why do you feel, because I don’t really feel, let’s talk about this.

’cause you know, if you tell ’em the number first, then they’re gonna tell you. What they want, what you want to hear kind of thing. Right? You know, so it’s kind of a game we play, but, um, so everybody’s different. But in general, you want to be at least the midpoint or at least the upper third, you know? So most guys start feeling better.  Again, this is arbitrary numbers, you know, 700, 600 to a thousand, but again, everybody’s different.

Dr. Weitz: And then sometimes you have men where the total testosterone is pretty good, but the free is low. So what do you do there?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, and they’re both important. Um, and again, it comes down to symptoms, right? You wanna [00:13:00] optimize both of them and they may, na may need treatment.  If their total is high and they’re free, they’re not getting enough free. ’cause the free is very powerful, has, even though it’s only, you know, one to 3% of the total testosterone, it still has a powerful effect. Now, on the flip side, sometimes it’s the other way around, right? Some guys will have a low total and a higher free, and.  What people don’t, what? What sometimes gets missed is this is a metabolic marker. And why is the free high? It might be high because your SHBG is low. Um, so there’s less to bind it up. And why is SHBG low? Well, commonly because of insulin resistance and it’s not picked up their, in their blood sugar is high.

Maybe their insulin’s okay, but maybe their helo A1C is up, maybe their triglycerides are up, maybe their HDL HDLs down a little bit and their SBGs down. Those are early. Those are like the canaries in the coal mine. Those are early warning signs of Vincent insulin resistance. Attending, you know, pre-diabetes and metabolic risks.  So it’s, that gets missed a lot. Um, so that can sometimes clue me in right away that we need to work on your insulin resistance, even though they don’t have the classic signs. If we nip it early, we can turn that ship around pretty quickly.

Dr. Weitz: So one of the reasons for low free could be insulin resistance.  What are some of the other reasons?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, I mean, medication reactions of course can affect any lab value. So any medications they may be taking, um, there’s, that’s a common one. Um, but the biggest one is, yeah, insulin resistance. You know, if they’re getting a fatty liver, um, they’re becoming pre-diabetic.  They have excessive inflammation in their body going on. Anything that’s could affect the liver, you know, any toxification pathways to inflammation, um, you know, crappy diet. All these things can affect it. But those, of course, we’re looking for all those things. But the biggest one, of course is insulin resistance.

Dr. Weitz: And and, and sometimes SHBG can be a factor too. You were saying it’s not a factor that often.

Dr. Fete: Right. Yeah. And the SH BG is kind of like, uh, kind of the warning sign, right? If it’s, if it’s low, and that could be because of insulin resistance or some other metabolic abnormal. If it’s high, it’s probably okay.  Probably nothing to be worried about. And unless, of course they’re taking a medication, like a lot of women are on birth control pills or estradiol that can raise your SHBG, but like I said, that, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. 

Dr. Weitz:  But yeah can’t stress raise your SHBG?

Dr. Fete: I’ve never seen that too much.  Really? Okay. Yeah. I imagine anything’s possible, right? But I’ve never seen that directly myself. Okay. Yeah. But stress can, stress can definitely adversely affect all your other hormones. It can crush your testosterone, estrogen, your thyroid, for sure.

Dr. Weitz: What about endocrine disrupting substances?

Dr. Fete: Big time?  Yeah, absolutely. Those are huge. As you know, we live in a very toxic world, right. You know, there’s phthalates and plastics, and we’re bombarded by. You know, EMF and blue light 24 7. We’re sitting in a, in a room with air conditioning and who knows what’s, you know, if there’s mold in the carpet and there’s crap in the food and glyphosate in our water, it’s like we’re bombarded 24-7.  So it’s an uphill battle to live healthy and, uh, toxin free, but it, it can be done.

Dr. Weitz: You ever test for toxins?

Dr. Fete: I do sometimes. Yeah. Um, sometimes I’ll test for toxins. A lot of people will have like, uh, have had some like mold exposure. I have to test for mycotoxins. Um, I’m sure you see this, but I see a lot of gut issues.  Everybody’s got gut issues. 

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. I see a lot of gut issues. Absolutely. Yeah.

Dr. Fete: It’s, you know, for those things we were just talking about, you know, it’s a, it’s rampant, you [00:16:00] know, so, um, gut issues and SIBO and, you know, long haul COVID, actually I’ve been, you know, a lot of people have gut issues from that COVID Really?

And the, yeah, the shots messed up a lot of people’s guts and it’s still lingering, so, yeah. Do you see that a lot too? Yeah, absolutely. I think that kind of gets missed sometimes. A lot of people are so focused on like the lungs and all these other things, but like we’ve, a lot of the studies are showing that these, you know, these, uh, spike proteins and all this stuff kind of hits the gut really hard and cause a lot of long-term damage and inflammation and sets things up for, for future badness.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, during COVID, we were actually testing, um, COVID, uh, in, in the stool. Yeah. Diagnostic solutions had a COVID test that they could pick it up in the stools, which is an example of the fact that it was having a profound effect on the gut. Definitely nasty stuff, man. For sure.

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Dr. Weitz:  So, um, what about estradiol levels?  What do you like to see in men and is there a level that’s too low or too high? What, what do you like to see?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, there’s, that’s a great question, Ben. There’s a lot of myths about estradiol. A lot of people still talk about again, like, oh, you know, the, the body, you know, the bottom milk form is like, bro, you gotta get your estrogen low, got high estrogen symptoms.  And a lot of that’s just, it’s just not true. You know, it’s just a lot of it, a lot of myths about that. So, as with everything though, anything can be too high or too low, but in general, most of the time it’s better to be on the higher side. You know, our estradiol levels when we were in, you know, our teens and twenties are probably, you know, 75 to a hundred.  Right. Some studies have shown that. So, um, you know, pushing 50, 60, 70 is totally fine and most guys feel better there. There’s a lot of the benefits of testosterone come from like, like I was telling everybody from DHG and from estradiol. When you look at the studies when they break it down, uh, especially things like sex drive, um, fat burning, you know, body composition, that’s from the estradiol.  The whole myth of estradiol is gonna make you gain weight. Exactly that. It’s actually the opposite. When you do an intervention study, like a baseline study versus an intervention, study’s very, very different. So when you do an intervention and women or men, you optimize their estradiol, they actually have improved body comp, improved sexual, you know, function, improved libido.  Um, so most guys are too low because they’re doing things to try to block estrogen, right? Or, uh, they’re taking an astro or some other stuff and they’re, they’re their estrogens, estradiol are coming in super low, five 10. 20. And that’s just too low, you know, so, and you don’t, you don’t necessarily have to do much for that.  If you optimize their testosterone and get ’em off that stuff, they’re gonna, they’re gonna get to where they need to be. Women’s a different story of course, but, um, we may have to give them estradiol, but, uh, it’s actually better to be the, the mid-range to higher side, you know, for, uh, for [00:20:00] health benefits.

Dr. Weitz: And does progesterone have benefits for men.

Dr. Fete: Yeah, that’s a little more mixed. Um, I know there’s a lot of people who promote that and like give progesterone for men, especially if they can’t do testosterone for some reason. But there’s been a number of studies showing that… 

Dr. Weitz:  Some of the integrative neurologists will sometimes use it for brain trauma.

Dr. Fete: Yep. TBI. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I think it has some benefit there. Some studies have shown it could be inflammatory to the vasculature, so a lot of times it’s, you know, a little, some, some, uh, studies indicate that like, you know, some of the, the groups I belong to, my mentors have said not to use it. So, but you’re right, like Dr.

Mark Gordon, you know, some other people have used it for TBI, like you said, ’cause of the, their neuroprotective benefits. So I think it’s a mixed bag, but I find that I never really have to give it to men, like as a, as a medication, usually by optimizing other hormones, lifestyle, it kind of self-corrects.

Dr. Weitz:  So what about DHEA?

Dr. Fete:  DHEA is a good one too. I sometimes feel like it’s the forgotten stepchild.  Right?  You know, it’s DHEA and Pregnenolone. People forget about these, but  they’re important too. They have a lot of health benefits. It can improve, you know, immune system function, improve insulin sensitivity, fat loss.  You know, again, it has an anti-inflammatory effect as it helps, and it’s been studied in some of the longevity stu studies.  I think it was at the TAME trial. I forget that there’s a couple trials showing like, you know, combination therapy of like DHEA, growth hormone and all these things that can improve longevity.  And it’s a, even though it’s a hormone sold, it’s a supplement. It’s cheap, you know, it’s so, it’s easy. There’s not much side effects. Um, now the tricky part is like with like say younger women, sometimes they’re a little more sensitive, so they sometimes we can’t dose them very high. We have to go either not even do it or really low because they sometimes will get oily skin or maybe some acne breakout. So, but women that are old perimenopause, menopause definitely give it to ’em. And some patients who have like arthritis, lupus, uh, they actually take big doses of it and it helps them tremendously. There’s actually. If the FDA’s actually proven like a, you know, standardized commercial version of DHA, they have a different name for it to, of course, you know, to promote for like, you know, these arthritic conditions.  So I like DHEA. 

Dr. Weitz:  What kind of, what kind of dosage do they use for that? 

Dr. Fete: I. Um, it depends, you know, so like for my women, most of the time I’m doing like 5, 10, 15 milligrams, but men 25 to 50, uh, sometimes higher, but for like arthritic conditions, we’re talking like 50, a hundred, 200 milligrams. So it could be okay.

Dr. Weitz:  Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

Dr. Fete:  And they like it. They feel good. They, it’s it helps their joint pain. They can function better. It’s kind of interesting. So, and then, uh, pregna alone, same thing, has some benefits for, like short-term memory has a, it’s a neuroprotective, it reduces inflammation in the brain as well.  So also used in traumatic brain injuries. Um, people that have those cognitive issues and things like that. Some people. And feel like they get a little, give a little mental, mental clarity, you know, during the day they like, they like how they feel on it. Yeah. And it’s easy, it’s cheap and it’s not much side effects.  Some people can’t tolerate it, but most people do just fine on it.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. The Fahy trial, which was really the first trial that showed a reversal of epigenetic aging, used a combination of DHEA, growth hormone, and Metformin.

Dr. Fete: Metformin. Yep. Yep.  Absolutely. So it’s safe, it’s innocuous, and, and you know, if it provides benefit, you know, why not, you know?  Right. And it’s, and it’s sold as a supplement, which is interesting, right? And so it’s pretty cheap, pretty easy to get.

Dr. Weitz: Right? So let’s talk about testosterone. Uh, when do you prescribe testosterone? Which forms do you like? And then how much do you prescribe?

Dr. Fete: Yeah. So for my men, I’d say the majority of them, it’s probably 60 40, 70 30, doing injectable.   I have the other percentage of doing a a cream, like the commercial stuff is, is kind of worthless. It’s too low. But when we use a compounded cream at a high concentration, it works just as well, if not better than the injectables.  I like the cream, um, because it’s more of a physiological response, right?  It, it kind of maintains stay levels throughout the day. Every day we get a normal. Rise and fall throughout the day. So it mimics that. I like to try to mimic our physiologic patterns as much as possible. So when it’s easy, especially when you apply it to the scrotum, it’s absorbed very well. It’s some that converts into DHT, which, which provides more anabolic effect, uh, libido effect, and so on and so forth.  So very, very beneficial in that regard. [00:24:00] Um, but some of my guys just are like. I’m just too busy. I’m not gonna remember to do a cream every day, or I don’t want to do that. I’d just rather do an injectable. I’m like, fine, we’ll do an injectable. And I like that too. They both work, uh, teach, you know, everybody has a different preference sometimes for whatever reason.

One works versus the other, and vice versa. But injectable, I like subcutaneous. It’s easy. Uh, you don’t have to go into the muscle. It’s less painful. Um, you’re not going to, you know, people worry about damaging the muscle, getting some scar tissue, whether that’s, you know, it’s kind of thing. But I, it’s definitely less painful, easier smaller needle.

So, and it’s kind of a depot effect, right? It absorbs a little bit more slowly. And it’s, uh, and it’s easy to manage and most of my guys are doing anywhere from two, three times a week. Some guys are doing like, almost like microdosing every day to kind of kinda like the cream, like a real low dose every day, which again is probably the most physiologic.

But you know, some guys are like, I’m not, I don’t, almost don’t wanna poke myself every day like a couple. So it comes down to practical points too, you know, but that’s how my men are, my women. Pretty similar. I have a number a lot doing injectable. A lot of women like the cream. They, they just don’t wanna mess with the needles and they just like the cream and, uh, same thing.

They can apply it to their [00:25:00] skin or transvaginal application is fantastic. Just like with scroll application, men absorbs so well and it can help with the vaginal mucosa. Helps with sex drive and orga orgasmic function. Uh, helps with, uh, improving the pH uh, and the vaginal tissues. Helps with hot flashes, night sweats, and all the other benefits that they, they get.  So they like that as well.

Dr. Weitz: So we also have pellets and now there’s oral testosterone.

Dr. Fete: Yeah, the pellets are, have been popular. Um, back when I had a brick and mortar clinic, I, I did do pellets for a while. Although towards the end, before I left that practice, we were kind of getting away from that. Some people were kind of not liking it anymore.  It was, you know, a slightly invasive procedure. Um, and it’s really not as physiologic, right? You know, you get that big burst, but then over the levels kind of drop over a period of a month or two, and then they don’t feel well. So, you know, the whole point is to be, you know, optimize everything 24 7. So it’s just not a very good.

Pattern for that, right? You’re getting that more artificial up and down, you know, rollercoaster ride of hormones and a lot of patients just don’t like that. Um, so I kind of got away from, I don’t think that’s the best way, but some people love it, you know, if they love it [00:26:00] and it’s working great, you know, have at it.

Yeah, now they have the oral formulation, which is new like Rex, um, which has been, um, pretty effective. I’ve used it a number of patients and I’ve had pretty good results. Um, you know, especially for the younger guys or maybe they’ve, um, my younger guys, I mean, I don’t recommend testosterone will put ’em on something else, but say they want to go on testosterone or they need testosterone, maybe that might be a jumping point, especially if there’s fertility concerns ’cause.  Some of the studies indicate they still maintain a, a good levels of FSH and lh, maybe some better fertility maintenance compared to testosterone. So thus far I’ve had good results. I haven’t had any issues, complications, and it works pretty well.

Dr. Weitz: So, besides, um, hormones, other signaling molecules include peptides, and I know you like to use peptides.  Why don’t you tell us some of the benefits of peptides, some of your favorite peptides, and.

Dr. Fete: Yeah, for sure. So peptides are, like you said, they’re like signaling molecules. They’re, uh, chains of amino acids, um, that are basically, you know, peptides are physiologic, kinda like quo is our body. We make, we make [00:27:00] peptides.  Like insulin is a peptide, right? And that’s been around discover what, the twenties, right. So I always tell people, they ask what it is. I’m like, it’s natural. Our body has like the GLP ones, like ozempic and things. We make our own GLP one in our, in our intestine. Right? So it’s a natural peptide. Pharmacies, of course can now make them in, you know, higher, higher concentrations for beneficial effects.  

So they’re great molecules because they’re very safe. Um, not much downside or side effects, and they’re natural and they’re easy to administer. So there’s a plethora of effects. And man, gosh, there’s so many. Like we were talking before we started corner, there’s so many peptides. Um, it’s just a question of what you wanna use it for.

Um. Again, as signaling molecules, they have a lot of effects on the body. And uh, I’d say some of the more popular ones are like, um, things like the healing peptides. You know, the BPC 1 57, the Thymosin beta, um, GHK, they have a beneficial effects for repairing tissue, damaged tissue, ligaments, tendons, muscles, bones, gut BPCs, great for gut issues, um, you know.

Uh, people have like inflammatory bowel disease or gut dysbiosis or [00:28:00] SIBO or heartburn acid reflux, very beneficial for that. Um, the growth hormone peptides have, have always been, uh, around for a long time. Very popular as well because similar testosterone, we all start losing growth hormone, you know, heck ’cause they’re always our, you know, thirties, uh, and, and it drops so it can stimulate the bite to make its release.

Its more of its own growth hormone and that natural diurnal pattern we get at night. We normally release growth hormone while we sleep. So it’s a nice way to facilitate your body’s. Pumping it out of our own. We, we, we still have it as we get older. We just don’t release it as well from our, from our, from our pituitary gland.  So it’s a nice one. And also for, you know, a lot of anti quote unquote antigen effects, right? Healing of tissues, repair, deeper sleep, improves slow wave sleep, REM sleep.  And it can help with body composition, right? Main maintenance of muscle mass like we’re talking about at the beginning, but

Dr. Weitz: which peptides you like for growth hormone stimulus.

Dr. Fete: Yeah. So, um, the, probably one of the original ones was Smolin, uh, which is still around F fda, A approved, probably not the most powerful one, but it still has an effect. Some people like it. After that, they came up with, uh, what they call the growth hormone, hormone releasing hormone called [00:29:00] CJC, and then a growth hormone releasing peptide called ipamorelin.

Uh, they’re typically given together, although you can use Ipamorelin by itself. That was a great one. But that’s the one they, they kind of. The fda a back in the fall tried to try to get rid of so that we could still, some pharmacies are still compounding, combined with other nutrients, but it’s a little harder to get.

Now. Tessa Molin is probably the most powerful of them. Uh, it’s the most expensive, but it works really, really well. It’s also FDA a approved, and it’s because it’s been used for. Muscle wasting and visceral adiposity. Very, really good at getting rid of that visceral fat, which is very dangerous. Uh, it was, it was used a lot with HIV patients for sarcopenia, so that’s probably the most powerful one.

Uh, but they all work really, really well and they’re a good one to punch with BPC because BPC Upregulates growth hormone receptors in the body, IGF one receptors. So, um, they’re a great combination product. Um. And we were talking about COVID and gut issues. You know, one of the ones I’ve been using, uh, lately too is called Tite.

I dunno if you’ve used that one or heard that one. But, um, that’s great for the gut. Um, a lot of inflammatory bowel issues and all this, the gut stuff. How do

Dr. Weitz: you, how [00:30:00] do you spell that one?

Dr. Fete: Latti? I think it’s L-A-R-O-Z-I. I have, I have to, I have to like spell it slowly. Okay. Razzo Tide R. Yeah. Okay.  L-A-R-A-Z-O-T-I-D-E. And uh, so what it does is when the gut is inflamed, um, it, the, the lining of this, the intestinal wall, as you know, is very thin. It can be become irritated under inflammation and releases a chemical zonulin, right, which is a marker of inflammation. So, uh, LoRa actually improves ZO levels and reduces that inflammation and it heals those tight junctions.  It kind of brings those tight junctions together and uh, makes them. One again. So we, so you don’t get that leaky gut syndrome and it reduces that, uh, zonulin and reduces the inflammation, helps the v the VI heal themselves and to absorb nutrients and, and keep out the toxins. So that’s kind of a cool one.  So many people having gut issues nowadays. It’s a nice, it’s a nice peptide to use for gut health, and especially when you come by with something like BPC orally. Yeah. And BPC helps with leaky gut as well. Definitely. It’s a great one. And it’s nice because that’s one of the few that’s an [00:31:00] oral version. You know, the injectables typically been used for musculoskeletal issues, but the oral BPC is great for the gut.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, especially for gut. The oral, uh, BPC is really good. I.

Dr. Fete: And if you get it combined with KPV, which is another anti-inflammatory peptide that has kind of a double whammy effect. So those are kind of the more popular ones. You know, there’s, there’s others too that are helpful for like brain health, uh, reducing inflammation in the brain, um, cognitive function, cognitive health, um, you know, different things like that.  There’s, you know, there’s so many peptides. There’s, I. DEXAs and Human ins and you know, the thymus in family clan for anxiety and, uh, you know, mental clarity. So there’s, there’s so many, but, uh, so it kinda depends on the condition of what you’re, but those are kinda the more popular ones.

Dr. Weitz: So for men who have low testosterone or low libido, who don’t want to take exogenous testosterone, can you use peptides?

Are there other supplements that are beneficial?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, for sure. Um, a lot of studies are showing that, especially if they have a deficient, you know, if they’re starting to drop their growth hormone, as you know, it starts pretty young. There’s been some studies showing we just by [00:32:00] optimizing their growth hormone, maybe with these growth hormone peptides, um, you could stimulate, uh, the gona to increase testosterone production.  ’cause if a two tear is kind of the master master gland, right, you optimize your growth hormone, IGF one in the liver and it affects everything. So by optimizing that a lot, some studies are showing you could. Turn that around just by doing that. Um, interesting. And of course there’s tons of, you know, supplements out there, been around forever, right?

And they’re kind of a questionable benefit and they might be able to help with some people, you know, the toca, ALIS, ALIS, the, you know, all those ashwagandha, so on and so forth. Herbal stuff, maybe some benefit, but if it’s young guy, he’s pre clearly deficient clinically and on a laboratory test, you know, I definitely, especially if they’re.  Younger and they’re below 40. I definitely would steer them away from testosterone because of the effects on their fertility. Um, might wanna do something like HCG or uh, Clomid or en clomophine, which can all stimulate the body to make its own testosterone and maintain fertility. And they all work really, really well.  HCG is a little more. Hard to get. Now it’s a lot more expensive, but it’s still available. Um, but I use a, I’ve used it many times. I’ve used Clomid many [00:33:00] times with great success. Um, and it’s a great way to go. And of course now with the Kaiser Rex, that might be another option. I still would probably start them on one of the other ones first and save Kaiser Rex for if they, if they don’t, if it stops working or you know, they wanna switch it up, at least they know.

Or maybe even just talk to ’em about fertility issues. Maybe have ’em do some sper banking if that’s the case. Just to, just to cover the base. Make sure, ’cause some guys are like. Now I’m never having kids. But you, you, you know, you know how that goes. 10 years later, they change your mind like, oh, I wanna have kids now.  So what can we do? Okay. Well, so there’s ways to, there’s ways to reverse that sometimes, but, uh, it’s easier to avoid in the first place.

Dr. Weitz: Right? So one of the side effects that can occur with taking testosterone is you can see an increase in hematocrit and hemoglobin and red blood cell production. So how do you manage that?

Dr. Fete: You can, yeah. You get what’s called a secondary erythrocytosis, and this is another one of the things that I see all the time online. Everybody still talk. Even the doctors will say, that’s polycythemia and it’s not. It’s a, that’s a polycythemia is a, a blood dis blood issue, a blood dyscrasia where all the blood cells are affected.  The platelets, the white blood [00:34:00] cells are red blood cells, so. The erythrocytosis just from testosterone is just the red blood cells. The white blood cells are normal, platelets are normal, and it’s kind of, and and really the erythrocytosis is normal. A lot of people like it ’cause they have better oxygen carrying capacity, better lung capacity, which is why, you know, live athletes do it.  Right. They can like look at Lance Armstrong. Right. You know? Right, right. Yeah. Course he was, don’t eat paja and all that other stuff too. But, um, but it helps and, and really it’s not as big a deal as people make it out to be. You think it, how many thousands of people live it al to in Denver and Nepal and, you know, Himalayas and all these things, and they’ve got blood counts.

They’re hemoglobin hematocrits are super high and they’re doing just fine. They’re not donating blood, they’re not dropping dead of heart attacks and stroke. They’re, they’re living smokers. Same thing. You know, they’re all okay. Um, so this, it’s kind of a myth that you gotta donate blood and do all this kind of stuff.  And actually some of the newer studies are showing that blood donation, if you do it too much, can actually backfire and actually make some problems. So I don’t really find I have to do that if they, their blood counts do go up too much, a little bit. All we had to do is just adjust it. 

Dr. Weitz:  So what do you consider the highest level of say, hematocrit that you’re comfortable with?

Dr. Fete: I’d say most of my guys are like, you know, high end hemoglobin of 18, 19 hematocrit of, you know, maybe 54, somewhere in that range. I think if you’re there below, you’re fine. Um, and again, I, I don’t think, I’ve never seen a lot of the studies don’t even show anything at that level or even above it really happening, but unless you’re way above it.  But I think that’s kind of my comfort level. It’s, it’s, uh, that’s what the studies have shown. Uh, and again, if they’re creeping up there, I’ll just lower the dose a little bit and they, and they won’t feel any different and their blood counts will come down. They’ll be just fine. It’s the easiest way to deal with it.

Dr. Weitz:  Since, since I mentioned one of the side effects to testosterone, what about some of the worries about testosterone, possibly increasing the risk of prostate issues?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, thank, thank goodness that myth has been put to bed, although it’s gonna take a lot of, to people still talk about that. Um, as fortunately it’s been completely disproven.  Um, no risk of prostate cancer. Increasing is the bottom line. If anything, you’ll have a better outcome and a reduced risk overall. People that have prostate cancer, you know, one in seven men are gonna have [00:36:00] prostate cancer at some point. And the lower your testosterone level, the worse outcome you’re gonna have.

And if you, it’s gonna be more aggressive. So. It’s better to have an optimal testosterone level and you’re gonna have a better outcome even if you have prostate cancer. Um, yeah. I think

Dr. Weitz: one of the reasons why that concern comes out is because men with metastatic prostate cancer are often put on therapy to reduce testosterone.  

Dr. Fete: They do. They do. But um, what’s happening is, uh, it’s still, you know, they still have problems down the road and there’s what’s called the, uh, it’s basically that threshold theory, you know, the, uh, the saturation effect is what it’s called. So once the testosterone gets above 200, 2 50, it doesn’t matter.  You could go way higher and will it grow? Will it feed that cancer? So you get to 200, 2 50. Yeah. But at that point above that, it doesn’t do anything. Um, and those guys, when they go on androgen deprivation therapy, yeah, we’ll help temporarily. But they’re gonna be miserable. They’re gonna get osteoporosis, heart of cardiovascular disease, they’re gonna feel terrible, and they’re gonna die more likely of cardiovascular disease, which is the number one killer of men.

Um, and they’re not, they’re gonna die with their prostate cancer or, you know, not, not [00:37:00] because of it. So, and now a lot of people are actually treating prostate cancer with estradiol and, and treating with testosterone. You look at Dr. Abraham Mayhem, Morgentaler, well known urologist out in Harvard, and he’s putting men on testosterone all the time, and they’re doing fantastic.  So it’s the people are actually using it to treat cancers now, so. That ship is finally turned, but those mist still abound that it’s gonna cause cancer.

Dr. Weitz: And then what about the, uh, alleged, uh, worry about the fact that testosterone could increase cardiovascular risk? I know one thing I’ve seen in some men on testosterone is their HDL levels tend to drop.

Dr. Fete: Yeah, same thing. I, I think that’s kind of been kind of disproven at this point too. I think that there’s no increased risk of anything. And if anything, long term they’re gonna do better because they’re gonna reduce their visceral fat, reduce their inflammation, improve their metabolic markers, um, improve ejection fractions, improve their cardiovascular function.  And a lot of men actually lower their blood pressure, um, now with injectable. Yeah, sometimes in the first year or so, they can get a slight dip in their HDL, but it tends to recover and come back to normal, especially if they’re paying attention to lifestyle, [00:38:00] diet, et cetera. Um, the cream not as much, has to have less, less of an effect on the HL but again, usually it’s more of a temporary thing.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. Um, what, what, what is some of the other strategies for promoting longevity besides, uh, hormones? I.

Dr. Fete: Yeah. So I think, um, I think you and I probably agree, you know, talk a lot about, you know, lifestyle. I think that’s still the biggest mover. Yeah. You know, and everybody wants the quick fix in America, right?  We want that magic pill. But you know, you gotta do the basics. You know, you gotta sleep, you gotta eat right, you gotta exercise and move daily. Uh, and that’s sometimes that’s the hardest thing, right? ’cause it takes work on everybody’s part. But I think that is the most important thing. I’m really big on, uh, natural lifestyle and definitely more on like circadian rhythms, uh, quantum biology aspect.

You look at the science of that and you’re like, you know, getting out and looking at the sun every day, getting your feet in the grass, you know, trying to get outside as much as you can away from the wifi. Get your sun, get the sun on your skin. And constant movement. You look at the long-lived societies, they’re the ones that are constantly moving.

They’re outside all day. They have a sense of community. They’re interacting with other people. They’re not sitting there on their [00:39:00] phones by themselves all day long, right? We’re meant to be outside. We’re meant to be moving. So I really try to encourage as much as possible, and I know it’s, you know, we all work.

We have to do stuff, but we can all take breaks and get out and move. So for me, you know, um, really kind of getting back to our roots. I love to blend. I love to blend the new. With the old, you know, trying to get back to the, that ancestral wisdom, right? Of again, community, getting outside, going for hikes in nature, getting the sun on your skin as much as possible, and moving our body, you know, again, going back to muscle medicine, really, and again, we don’t have to throw heavy weights around, but getting out, lifting things, flipping tires, you know, hiking, just being active, using our bodies, that’s what we’re meant to do.

I think that’s, you know. People kind of forget about that. They kind of think that they can hit the gym hard for an hour and just sit on their butt all day and just, and take a shot and not eat right. And they’re like, no, I’m gonna, I’m gonna make you eat right. I’m gonna make you move. And these are foundational.

You just can’t not do that. You know, the peptides are great, the hormones are great, but they are definitely, you know, I hate to say ancillary, but they’re secondary to the lifestyle aspect. You, you definitely have to do those things first.

Dr. Weitz: Are there any medications or [00:40:00] supplements that you think can move the needle in terms of longevity?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, there’s a lot, you know, and, uh, I think there’s some that have been just, you know, known about and there’s some that are kind of like, you know, on the, on the debate table right now. Right. You know, so, you know, we were talking earlier about like things like Metformin and DHA growth hormone, I think pretty well shown.  Um, you know, the other things a little more controversial, like rapamycin, uh, kind of a big anti-aging molecule has been talked about. And I think there’s, you have to be more careful with that. I think it definitely has some benefits, but it has to be the right person and then it might be at the right time and maybe cycling in and out with a, and I like it with like my, similar to peptides.  I think I rotate things in and out. You know, sometimes I’ll put somebody, do, do

Dr. Weitz: you take rapamycin? Have you taken it? I.

Dr. Fete: I have myself, I’m not taking it right now. I, I did it for maybe a month, uh, and then once or twice a year I did that. But I have not done it since. So I think if you’re older, if you’ve got some other metabolic issues, some inflammatory issues, I think there’s some benefit there.  Maybe short term, maybe rotating in and out of your, your regimen, but I don’t think you should be doing all year round, and especially if you’re younger, I don’t think [00:41:00] there’s any need for that.

Dr. Weitz: Right. So what about any, what about any of the supplements for longevity? You know, some of the more popular ones are NMN and Nicotinomide Riboside, which are NAD precursors, right.

Dr. Fete:  Yes, I mean, some of the foundational ones are still applicable, right? You know, good old vitamin K, optimizing your vitamin D with sun exposure. Um, you know, things like that. You know, magnesium is huge. You know, we’re all deficient. Magnesium and has so many functions in the body.  Urolithin A is a cool substance to optimize mitochondrial health, which has been been discovered of late.  Yeah, and NAD optimization is good too. I think the NR, NMN, they have their role, but sometimes I think they’re overused. And if you’ve got some inflammation or some other, some other process going, your body, you can actually make things worse.  So, may not be the best strategy, but I think this, the precursors, like you said, are probably a safe way to go. But some studies indicate you can even just take niacinamide and still get a lot of beneficial effects and it’s cheaper. Um, and the other one is one MNA, I don’t know if you’re familiar with that one, but that I’m not familiar with that.  What is that? So there’s a supplement called one MNA. So. Part of the whole on the biologic cycle and the biophysiology of, of, uh, NAD production, that’s where these NMRs or NR and NMS come in. It’s the, uh, the salvage pathway, that kind of resynthesis of your nas, right? But one of the byproducts of that is called, so, you know, um.

Is, uh, it goes through this process, but this one, MNA, is a pro, is a, a derivative of that. And again, you wanna balance, right? We all want, you can’t take too much of a supplement or too little. So by any, by taking N-R-N-M-N you can do that, but sometimes you might be forcing that pathway to do more than what it should.  So one MNA actually kind of has, its almost like a. Like an adrenal adaptogen, right? If it’s low, it brings it up. If it’s high, it brings it down. So it kind of makes the body balance itself out so you don’t have any excessive, uh, metabolites. So it’s a nice way, and it’ll boost your own. It’ll raise your NAD on its own and keep it balanced in a natural way.  So it’s a, it’s a newer one. Uh, and I, if, if somebody’s got some issues, uh, with their, you [00:43:00] know, uh, concerns about cardiovascular health, inflammation, I think that’s a good one. Uh, instead of the, or the NSNs and nrs, you know, but. If people are doing pretty well, metabolically lab’s normal, it’s, it’s not a bad supplement to take either.

Dr. Weitz: Right. Uh, Omega-3 is always beneficial. 

Dr. Fete: Yeah. Omega threes for sure. Um, you know, and then, um. ’cause we need those for our cell membranes. Uh, plasm mogens have been discovered. Dr. Good. Now, I dunno if you’re familiar with his work or not, but, uh, he’s got some interesting products called, you know, we lose, there’s a, uh, you know, part of our cell membrane is these plasm mogen, and we lose those as we age as well.  Um, so Plasm Mogen deficiency is similar to omega threes. It’s part of that makes the, the, the linings of all our cells and our tissues, especially around our nerves. Um, so that’s another interesting, um, I, I’ve heard about ’em. I haven’t tried ’em though. Yeah. So those are some other, some cutting, some newer kind of things too.  So I think, yeah, I think of the basics of the ones we talked about. You know, keep it simple. There’s a million supplements you could take. Right. You know? Yeah. There’s, [00:44:00] you can go overboard, I think. But I think most people, yeah. 

Dr. Weitz: We even now have plant peptides.

Dr. Fete: Right, right. 

Dr. Weitz:  There’s one called Peptide Strong that I’ve been using on some of the patients.  Yep. Seems to help a little bit.

Dr. Fete: I’ve been using that one as well. That’s an interesting product, Peptistrong. Uh, I think I, I think it has some good data behind it. Um, you know, for Atropin, there’s all these cool things for muscle health. I’ve been using my, you know, some since, uh, occasionally myself.  But yeah, so it’s kind of, it’ll be interesting to see what happens over the next year with all these new products and combinations and, uh, different, different, I think people are starting to catch on to peptides and. Um, like you said, plant molecules, different things like that. So a lot of cool stuff that, that can be done for sure.  But I think start with the basics and kind of build from there. And, and like supplements, peptides again, rotate things in and out. You don’t, you could take 30 supplements a day. I don’t know if that’s necessarily a good thing. Maybe do something for a few months and rotate and do something different.  That’s kind of what I try to do with myself and my patients, otherwise you go crazy taking all these things.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. I take, I take about 30 supplements twice a day. Uh, what, what’s your favorite book on longevity?

Dr. Fete: Ooh, on longevity. That’s a good one.

Dr. Weitz:  I mean there’s a lot that have been written. We got Peter Atia, we got Mark Hyman. We have, you know, so many people have written books on longevity.

Dr. Fete: I know There’s a good one.  There’s a lot of good ones. Jack Cruz had an interesting book. It’s not really about longevity, but his book, his, I don’t know if you read any of his stuff, his pretty, I haven’t, um, you know, like, is it Peter Attia? Um, Dr. Goods got an interesting, not really about longevity.  Ben Bickman wrote a book about, you know, why we get sick and it has a lot to do with insulin and things like that.  So, you know, my, one of my mentors, Dr. Rouzier has written a book, Dr. Seeds has written some books. I don’t know, there’s so many out there and so many topics is the problem. There’s so many different areas to go, so many rabbit holes to go down, you know?

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. Alright, great. How about you? Um, uh, how, how about final thoughts, uh, and how, what are you, what, what is your contact information?

Dr. Fete: Yeah. No, I appreciate you having me on. I think the biggest thing is just, you know, try to [00:46:00] keep, you know, for me, I try to keep things simple. It’s easy with information overload nowadays and everybody’s googling everything. I think it’s, it’s easy to go down, like we said, so many rabbit holes. I think just really trying to focus on the basics and I want people to kind of remember, like I said, remember the roots saying, kind of get back to.  Our body’s natural rhythms. You know, I am, like I said, try to get outside, embrace nature, you know, embrace community. Uh, communicate with people face to face. You know, lift heavy things, move every day. You know, get your sleep, eat real food. You know, it doesn’t have to, you don’t have to go on a diet, just eat food if it has a label box bag, or can probably shouldn’t eat it, right?

Um, we all have to live a little bit. We all have to cheat. You know, I, everybody knows I like my chocolate, my bourbon, so, you know, we gotta cheat a little bit, but at the same time, try to, you know, eat, eat well most of the time. And then. And then work with a, and please. I always tell people like work with a, you know, a clinician who knows what they’re doing.

I see a lot of people just doing stuff on their own, buying everything online and the black market. And so you have to be really careful. You don’t know what you’re getting. So work with someone, uh, a good, uh, you know, clinician who knows what they’re doing, who’s trained, and who can guide them. Again, not that we know everything, but we can definitely guide them along the way and I want them to take, you know, to take adv, take control of their own health, be their own advocate, right. You know, do double check everything, but work with the, work with multiple docs, clinicians, et cetera. And, uh, so they, so they get some coaching along the way, and I’m happy. 

Dr. Weitz:  Do you recommend physicians who’ve been trained by A4M or IFM or certain, is there a way for somebody to know when they find somebody who’s good?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, I think as someone who’s been certified by a well-known, reputable organization, you know, like, you know, guys like you, you know, you’re very knowledgeable about all these topics. You’ve, you’ve got all the certifications, you know, you know your stuff and you’ve been trained and certified, done a ton of education.  Um, so those, that organizations you mentioned, you know, especially the IFM is great. I for hormones, I’m a big fan of World Link Medical. Dr. Neil EYs been around for decades. He’s probably one of the, the wizards of the hormone space, um, very different from A four M, but he’s, his is all data science based, so I like World Link Medical, um, peptide societies.

Again, I was with, International Peptides Society and they changed, and Dr. Cs took over SSRP and now the, uh, International Peptide Society is being run by a different group now. Um, and I’ve, I’m familiar with them as well, so, yeah. So, you know, whether it’s, you know. Just someone who knows what they’re talking about, who’s actually spending time with patients has been certified.  Someone like yourself or myself or someone like that, I just don’t want the, uh, internet guru with no medical training. And, and again, they’re well-meaning a lot of ’em know their stuff. Right, right. Um, but you just have to be careful, that’s all. So I just want people to get their best help. 

Dr. Weitz:  So how can people contact you?

Dr. Fete: Yeah, so Dr. Eric primex.com is my, is my company, uh, my website.  I’ve got a ton of free stuff on there in my YouTube channel, Dr. Eric Primex. I’ve got tons of free content, free videos, free eBooks on my website and, 

Dr. Weitz:  And what’s the exact website?

Dr. Fete: So Dr. Eric Primax, so D-R-E-R-I-C-P-R-I-M-E-X.com.

Dr. Weitz: Cool.

Dr. Fete: Great.  And, check us out on social media. Again, I’m posting stuff every day, a lot of free videos, trainings, you know, all kind of stuff. I just like to help people and teach and, and talk. I could, I love talking shop, so if I can, uh, you know. Share or help anybody, just let me know. Happy to help.

Dr. Weitz:  Sounds good. Thank you so much, Dr. Fete.

Dr. Fete: Thank you, sir. Appreciate you being on.

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Dr. Weitz:  Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast. For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcast or Spotify and give us a five star ratings and review.  As you may know, I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine. If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition, and want to prevent chronic problems, and want to promote longevity. Please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports chiropractic and nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine, and I will talk to everybody next week.

Ron Beckenfeld discusses Anti-aging and Nutritional Supplements with Dr. Ben Weitz.

[If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so more people will find The Rational Wellness Podcast. Also check out the video version on my WeitzChiro YouTube page.]

 

Podcast Highlights

In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, Dr. Ben Weitz hosts Ron Beckenfeld, CEO of Continental Vitamin Company. They discuss strategies to promote health and longevity, especially in the older population. Ron shares insights on the importance of proper diet, exercise, and rest, emphasizing fresh foods and resistance training. The discussion covers protein intake, supplements for longevity, detox methods, and the significance of maintaining good posture and balance. They also touch on the use of innovative products like the Apollo wearable and the challenges of getting started with a fitness routine. The episode concludes with recommendations on where to find high-quality dietary supplements.
00:26 Meet Ron Beckenfeld: CEO of Continental Vitamin Company
01:37 The Importance of Diet and Exercise for Longevity
03:10 The Role of Resistance Training in Aging
05:37 Debating Protein Intake for Longevity
10:06 The Significance of Posture and Balance
13:07 Promoting Consistent Exercise Habits
15:08 The Impact of GLP-1 Agonist Drugs
16:12 Personal Fitness Routines and Final Thoughts
16:28 Hormone Replacement Therapy Discussion
16:43 Superior Source Vitamins and Absorption
17:44 Longevity Supplements and Strategies
20:40 Detox Methods and Products
23:38 Overtraining and Recovery Insights
26:10 Independent Health Food Stores
28:34 Conclusion and Podcast Outro
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Ron Beckenfeld is the CEO of Continental Vitamin Company that produces the Superior Source product line of vitamins, minerals, and herbal supplements with instant-release tablets that utilize a MicroLingual delivery system for quicker and more direct absorption.  His website is SuperiorSourceVitamins.com.

 

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz: Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

 

Hello, Rational Wellness podcasters. We are here today again with my friend Ron Beckenfeld, who’s the CEO of Continental Vitamin Company, a leader in the health and fitness industry. And he produces high quality dietary supplements in Los Angeles. And, uh, he is very focused on promoting health and longevity.  And so we’re going to center our discussion today around how to promote health, and longevity, especially among the older population. So Ron. Uh, thank you so much for joining us again today.

Ron: It’s a pleasure and, and you’re a credit to the business. Uh, you’re in great shape. You’re not a spring chicken like me, not as old as me.  I’m gonna, I’m gonna be 81. I’ve known you, uh, before you became a professional. There you go. Yeah. When you just went to school and it’s been a great relationship and you’re a real pioneer, 

Dr. Weitz:  And I remember when you were selling vitamins out of the back of your car at the gym. 

Ron: That’s right.  Right? That’s right.  Both come a long way. Yeah. My major thing is that you get older, I think, uh, where people just don’t really understand. You really need to really focus on, I’m in the supplement business. I have my Superior Source brand. But just take eating properly. Fresh foods, very important. Exercise is important.  You don’t need a ton of it. Uh, proper rest. And mainly eating good fresh food and, and eating, you know, uh, regularly. And, and I think as you eat older, I think you gotta keep your protein up for sure. Whether you, where you wanna get it from, wherever you want to get it from is okay. You know.

Dr. Weitz: Well, so where do you think most people go wrong?  Do you think it’s on the eating, on the exercise, on the proper supplementation, on the sleep. What do you think, uh, are the places where people, most lack?

Ron: it’s all you just touch on is important, but if I’ve had to boil down to one, it’s at, at the dinner table eating. Yeah, things have changed so much.  And you know, Ben, when we first got it, I mean the, the protein powders were horrible. They didn’t even have nutritional labeling. And you go to any of these high-end, uh, health food stores like supermarkets, they got, they can make paper take taste good and could be clean  too. It’s almost like, you know, either you’re going to take care of yourself or not, but there’s so many good choices to take care of yourself. It’s unbelievable. And I think the food is number one. You do need to move, you do need to exercise, and I think you do some resistance training. A lot of people make a mistake, and I think it’s a fallacy. I don’t know if you’ll agree with me or not. I think as you get older, I think you need, uh, not a lot, not a ton of it, but you need good resistance training, not like you take a weight and you, and after 30 reps, you’re looking around. You know what I mean? I mean, where you’re pushing a little bit. I think it’ll, that’ll, uh, keep you strong and especially your leg strength as you get older is critical along with your posture. I.

Dr. Weitz: Balance. Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, one of the keys to longevity is one of the things that cuts a lot of people’s lives short is when they fall and break a hip.  And so loss of muscle, what we call sarcopenia. That’s right, loss of bone, what we call osteopenia or osteoporosis. Those are huge factors that are going to cut short your life and limit your mobility and, and it’s clear that. Not just weight training, but some heavy weight training is the only way you’re gonna maintain your muscle and your bone.  I recently interviewed Belinda Beck, who is this physical therapist from Australia, and she is the only one to publish studies showing that you could. Increased bone density with a weight training program. And the reason why everybody else has fallen short on their studies is they have people do a few lightweights or a few machines, and it’s not enough.  You’ve gotta really load the muscles and you’ve gotta load the bones. So she has. Mostly women in her studies, but she’s also extended it to men. They, they do deadlifts, squats, overhead presses, five sets of five rep maximum. So they’re doing [00:05:00] as heavy weight as they can for five reps. That doesn’t mean just using three pound dumbbells.  And, and then she also has ’em do some ballistic movement. Which when you can ballistically load the bones, that’s been actually shown to provide the greatest stimulus to bone density. Now obviously you have to build up to it. You have to do it gradually. But to be able to load the bones like that is a real important, uh, through impact.  So there’s no doubt that doing some, uh, heavy resistance training is one of the keys to longevity.

Ron: You didn’t touch on the protein. I think that’s got to be tied into it too.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, I agree. Um, it’s very interesting, this whole protein intake because in the nutritional part of longevity science as anything related to nutrition, as, you know, it’s kind of like politics.  There’s the groups, there’s the vegan group, you got the carnivore group, you got the mini.  Everybody’s fighting saying this is the only way to do it. And so you got the, you know, one of the arguments from a lot of the. The vegan group is that, uh, animal protein’s bad. In fact, protein can be bad because it can increase, mTOR and mTOR is bad for longevity.  And there’s an argument made that you want to have lower protein and, uh, and, and they point to the Laron dwarfs in Ecuador. Who, um, don’t produce growth hormone. And so they have virtually no cancer and they tend to live longer. So the argument is if you have higher protein, it tends to promote, IGF one and growth hormone, and that’s associated with higher cancer rates.  Or you want to have lower protein. But then the same folks who advocate lower protein say, well, when you hit 60, then you need more [00:07:00] protein so you don’t lose muscle.

Ron: I agree with that, but hey, I’d rather, I’d rather take my shot at getting a, a cancer than being a dwarf.

Dr. Weitz: You know what my argument is? If you don’t wanna lose muscle when you’re 60, the best way to do it is not lose muscle when you’re 50.  So keep your protein up all the way through and maintain your muscle. Just make sure that you’re doing heavy weight training that simulates your body to utilize the protein.

Ron: I agree. And, and I think collagen too, for the bone mass

Dr. Weitz: collagen is very important. It, it provides the matrix for bone, it helps joint support.  So I, I, I totally agree. I am a big believer in eating the right foods, but also taking targeted supplements, which after all are food concentrates that allow us to get more of specific nutrients.

Ron: Yeah. But still the major thing is still the food.

Dr. Weitz: Of course.

Ron: Yeah. Nothing better than you could take.  Supplements are just what they are–Supplements.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. What I take from some of the vegan arguments is I am totally in support of people who want to eat vegan and want me to help ’em. I’m okay with that, but I think you’re better off having some quality animal proteins as well, including fish, organic chicken, some grass fed beef, um, because I think the, some of the nutrients you get are excellent as well as the quality proteins, but it’s also important.  If you’re going to follow, say, a Mediterranean diet that I advocate for most people, you want to make sure you’re getting lots of phytonutrients, which are contained in different colored vegetables and fruits.

Ron: Absolutely. You should like me, I have a salad. Every meal I eat five times a day. Uh, generally two drinks.  I will drink a pea protein. I’ll have the whey protein. And it’s mainly egg whites. Uh. I’ll eat potatoes a lot, you know, which is good. I try to stay away from the bread. Not much of that, that type of stuff. A lot of water. A lot of people I know that exercise, they don’t even drink no water.  And I’m, I’m just looking at these guys. I’m waiting for the drop dead, you know? I mean, drop, yeah. A lot of liquids. Uh uh. Stay away from the, the, the sugary, sugary drinks and this and that and so on and so forth. Yeah, absolutely. In sarcopenia, we have a, a creatine and, uh, monohydrate with, HMB, which is HMB will, uh, uh, keep you from getting the sar, it’ll keep you from losing your, uh, muscle mass.

The fat

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. Crete no doubt has. Um,

Ron: but with the HMB,

Dr. Weitz: yeah.

Ron: We got 10 grams of creatinine, five grams of HMB in there. Okay. And I take that pretty much once a day.

Dr. Weitz: Creatine is actually beneficial for brain health as well,

Ron: right? Right. I [00:10:00] do. I use that on at least once a day. And, uh, but just as you get older, you know, a lot of people throw in the towel.  And the other thing is, like you said, is that, that that posture and the balance, you know. I, I hang from a, a, a bar every day. You just hang, you know? Yeah. 

Dr. Weitz:  Posture is super important. In fact, if you wanna prevent osteo product fractures, the most common way they happen is when you allow yourself to be slumped forwards.  And then when you, when the vertebrae are, um. Align properly, the weight is distributed, but if you lean forwards all the weights on the front of the vertebrae, and that’s when you tend to get compression fractures of the front of the vertebrae. So it’s important in everyday life that you maintain good posture, and especially when you’re lifting things like weights.

Ron: Well, another thing people gotta understand, I mean, uh, I, I relate it to like a car. Once it hits about 50,000, or that’d be 40 or 50, I mean, [00:11:00] you. You gotta really start taking care of it. And if you haven’t taken care of it, you’re gonna start having problems. But if you can take care of it at earlier, like you said, as you start with a lifestyle, but it, it’s very time consuming.

You know, it’s tough. People, uh, you know, when I was a young man, you know, I mean, probably your both parents didn’t work. Only one, one stayed at home. I mean, and, uh, the, they would have time to take care of those stuff now. Yeah. I mean, it’s pretty hard, but there’s a lot of knowledge out there and there’s a, a lot of people don’t like going to the gym.  I think you can get enough resistance and maybe not idyllic from the bands.

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Dr. Weitz: I’ve really been enjoying this discussion, but I just want to take a few minutes to tell you about a product that I’m very excited about. Imagine a device that can help you manage stress, improve your sleep, and boost your focus.  All without any effort on your part. The Apollo wearable is designed to just to do just that, created by neuroscientists and physicians. This innovative device uses gentle vibrations to activate your parasympathetic nervous system, helping you feel calmer, more focused, and better rested. Among the compelling reasons to use the Apollo wearable are that users experience a 40% reduction in stress and anxiety.  Patients feel that they can sleep. Their sleep improves up to additional 30 minutes of sleep per night. It helps you to boost your focus and concentration and it’s scientifically backed. And the best part is you can get all these benefits with a special $40 discount by using the promo code weitz at checkout to enjoy these savings.  So go to Apollo and use the promo code Weitz today. And now back to our discussion.

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Dr. Weitz:  You know, I, a lot of times I talk to people about getting exercise and I tell ’em they should be exercising for at least an hour a day, and they look at me like I’m crazy, like a whole hour. And then you think about human beings and the way we evolved and how for hundreds of thousands of years we were active the entire day.  We got up, we foraged for food, we hunted for animals. We were constantly, all day long until the evening. Did we settle down? And now to ask somebody to spend one hour of their whole day doing some physical activity is like a huge burden.

Ron: No. Especially if you don’t like it. If you don’t like it, take an hour of something.  You really don’t want to do it. It’s murderous. It’s, you know, I mean, I think I would get it down to a, a realistic, well

Dr. Weitz: find a way to like it. 

Ron: And do things you like. The thing I think I disagree with you is if you wanna get ’em started, I think about 20 minutes a day is a good start with maybe a little walking in the evening.  I’m going to the bare bones here. Yeah. But an hour is a lot for if you don’t like it, and a lot of people don’t like to even sweat.

Dr. Weitz: Well, if you’re not sweating, you’re not properly detoxing, so you need to sweat.

Ron: Yeah, but I’m just saying you, they, they, they, they, they, you know, they poo poo the hour. I mean, he might be able to build, I wouldn’t start him off an hour.  You’ll scare ’em off, man.

Dr. Weitz: You gotta put your body under some stress.

Ron: I’m not arguing

Dr. Weitz: with you, but

Ron: we’re talking. That’s

Dr. Weitz: how you build resistance in your physical system.

Ron: If that was, 

Dr. Weitz:  That’s what we call hormesis.

Ron: That was a case band. There would be a gym on every corner instead of a seven 11. And it ain’t happening.  You just don’t, people don’t wanna do that. They’re looking for a shortcut that, that, the pics and all that nonsense, you know, that stuff. I, you know, I mean, there’s a few people that maybe have a hormone problems or [00:15:00] they’re, you know, immune systems, they can’t handle it. But, uh. Even 20 minutes a day, I think will agree with

Dr. Weitz: a good solid look.  You’re, you’re right about the, uh, GLP one agonist drugs like Ozempic. They are taking this country by storm and everybody’s starting to take ’em. Uh, unfortunately we’re gonna have millions of people taking ’em, and, uh, there’s gonna be a big dilemma. If health insurance covers it, it’s going to bankrupt the healthcare system.

Ron: Well, they’re not gonna cover it. That’s the latest, but that’s not the point. But they gotta get a starting point and you don’t wanna. It’s like bringing a beginner into the gym and you give ’em a full bore workout and they get sore. They don’t want to come back. I, I think 20 minutes to start with it. If you really, and you get that eating right, I think you’re really going in the right direction versus zero.  Sure. You’re, you’re a little too for the average. Not for me. 

Dr. Weitz:  Something’s, something’s better than nothing. For sure.

Ron: It’ll get ’em, and especially if they start seeing results. [00:16:00] Yeah. Now you stick them in there for an hour and they’re so stiff the next day, they can’t move for a week. I mean, sure. You gotta, you gotta be careful.  But I think the eating is, uh, number one. Of course, you need the exercise. I, I, I, I basically trained, I was up at three-ish in the morning. I put an hour and a half in between, uh, cardio and full stretching and yoga, and I’ll go back and, and then I’ll hit the weights. I’m as strong as I was 20 years ago still.

Yeah.

Dr. Weitz: Well, that’s important.

Ron: Yeah. Keep the muscle on you, and we never talked about other little things like testosterone for men or bioidenticals for women. That’s another subject. Another day.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. Take, yeah. We’ve had plenty of discussions on the podcast about hormone replacement therapy.

Ron: Take. Take your take care of Superior Source.  Microing a man. Clean can get at almost any health food store online. Amazon, a Walmart. So

Dr. Weitz: why don’t you tell us, uh, your vitamin line is basically all to be, [00:17:00] uh, have a higher level of absorption by being absorbed under the tongue, correct?

Ron: Correct, correct. And we’re clean. All we have is the active ingredients and, uh, a little, uh, kecia gum and lactose.  That’s it. And that’s, this is a full strength. All the binders. All the excipients. A lot of stuff in the tablets are chemicals. They gotta uh uh, they’re making ’em a little cleaner than they used to, but this is probably the cleanest product on the market. Yeah.

Dr. Weitz: And then when you go to the pharmaceutical industry, it’s just crazy.  The stuff they put in there. They use TAL powders, so it’s lights through the machines, all kinds of crap.

Ron: Correct, correct, correct. We don’t do any of that. None of that in here.

Dr. Weitz: Right. So what are your favorite, um, supplements for longevity?

Ron: Uh. I think, well, I’m gonna use the protein powder as part of the supplements.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Ron: Without a question. We touched on creatine without a question.

Dr. Weitz: What about some of the [00:18:00] strategies to try to produce autophagy, mitophagy get you to recycle some of your cells people are using. Specific supplements. There’s, people use resveratrol. They use NED precursors, like NMN and NR. We have, uh, ULI a, there’s a bunch of supplements designed to trigger some of the longevity pathways.

Ron: The n and m we manufacture in here.

Dr. Weitz: Okay,

Ron: ROL, we manufacture in here.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Ron: Uh. Basically our, our line is a lot of B twelves, a lot of, uh, DS, uh, uh, single vitamins, uh, that type of, uh, folic acid bio. What do

Dr. Weitz: you think about DNMN?

Ron: There’s a, if the government stick their nose, get their nose out of it. I mean, there’s a big fight over this n and m in, uh,

Dr. Weitz: well, I think, isn’t it largely because of, uh, [00:19:00] one doctor who claims the rights to it?

Ron: No, the real fight came is the FDA authorized it as a food supplement, then they reverse course on it.

Dr. Weitz: Right? But isn’t that because that one doctor wants exclusive rights to it because he, they published it as a, as a pharmaceutical. And so if they, if it’s no longer a vitamin and he has the rights to it, I believe that’s how this came about.

Ron: You might be right. But I mean, uh, because there’s

Dr. Weitz: a whole thing about, apparently if a vitamin was originally used in a study as a drug, then they can say you can’t sell it as a, as a supplement. And that’s why Amazon stopped selling NAC. Right.

Ron: They stopped selling nmn too.

Dr. Weitz: Oh, okay. And I think it’s the same reason.

But

Ron: there’s some of the guys, like, uh, ERB will sell the n and [00:20:00] m. There’s other, uh, internet guys, but Amazon, but I

Dr. Weitz: think it’s one doctor who’s pushing that because he wants to have exclusive rights to it. I’m sure you know the guy I’m talking about.

Ron: No.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Ron: No, but I mean, the, now they’re fighting it out in the government.  You know that. Who the hell knows what’s gonna happen there with that? But once they get their claws on stuff,

Dr. Weitz: yeah.

Ron: I think it, you know, I think it’s a good product. The reverse tra, I mean, it’s part of a health regime. It’s a supplement. But again, I’m, go back to the food. That’s the game.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah.

Ron: Every day.  Fresh food, I, everything fresh. Just try to, not too much refined carbohydrates. You need carbohydrates.

Dr. Weitz: Right. So we live in Los Angeles and we recently have been through these horrendous fires that have exposed a lot of us to smoke and, and particulate matter and all kinds of toxins. What can we do to help, uh, get rid of some of that stuff from our bodies?

Ron: Um, the best thing is to move [00:21:00] first. Yeah. Uh, that’s a son of a gun. I guess. A lot of water, maybe, uh, the hyperbaric chamber. I don’t know, you know.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. Have you got into any of the detox products? Like, um, like glu, uh, liposomal glutathione or NAC binders? A lot of people use binders.

Ron: I’m familiar with ’em, but we cannot manufacture in here.  So we like to make everything have a complete quality control over everything we do. All the materials that come in here, I don’t care if they come from the moon, they’re gonna get right. Everything inbound’s being tested.

Dr. Weitz: What about the use of things like infrared sauna for detox?

Ron: I’m looking at buying one of those myself.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, we have one at the house.

Ron: Maybe kinda can talk to you later about that, you know? Yeah. Hyperbaric chambers. What do you think about that?

Dr. Weitz: It’s interesting, you know, it’s, it takes, it’s very time consuming, but Right.

Ron: But I’m looking at the infrared bed. How about the cold plunge?

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, cold plunge is good too.  Absolutely.

Ron: And these, you know, you know,

Dr. Weitz: if you get, if you get a sauna and a cold plunge, you can go back and forth.

Ron: Right. I have that. I mean, these great athletes like the Tom Brady’s have extended their life. LeBron James, the guy who’s 40 years old, he’s playing like a rookie, you know?

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, no, I agree.  It’s pretty amazing what these guys are able to do.

Ron: Yeah. But they’re doing it off season.

Dr. Weitz: Of course.

Ron: Yeah. And that was never made. Yeah.

Dr. Weitz:  Lebron says he spends over a million dollars a year on all this health stuff.

Ron: I don’t know if I believe that, but he’s doing the right things.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, well, he’s got the money.

Ron: Absolutely. Absolutely. But, uh, yeah,

Dr. Weitz:  No, you gotta give him, give him a lot of credit. Yeah. For playing that well at 40 years of age.

Ron: He’s incredible. He, he’s just incredible. And I think all these guys are catching onto this now. You know? That’s how they make their livelihood. And, uh, if the average American do that, I mean, you know.

That that’s an that.

Dr. Weitz: [00:23:00] Well, the whole key is to extend your health span. It’s one thing to live to be over a hundred. It’s another thing to be healthy to a hundred.

Ron: Uh, it’s a quality of life. Absolutely. I’m gonna be 81 and I think I’m doing pretty good still.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. You still feel like you’re enjoying your life, you’re being able to be active and,

Ron: yeah.  I can do anything I really want to do. I can do anything I wanna do pretty much at any time in my life, you know? Yeah.

Dr. Weitz: I’m

Ron: pretty much, as I was 30, I do the same stuff. I could still do 15 hins, which is not bad for me.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, that’s good.

Ron: Yeah. Where I was, you know, young, I could do more. And the injuries too is another thing, you know, that comes with age or, or mis over training or not training properly early.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. I mean, there’s a certain amount of wear and tear that’s gonna happen to our bodies.

Ron: Yeah. But now if I know what I know now and all those years I put into the gym and overtrained with [00:24:00] all that inflammation, uh, I’d be different. I’d be a lot better off than I am.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, it’s a fine balance though. You need a little bit of inflammation, not just too much.  Correct. Like for example, if you load up on massive amounts of antioxidants and then you go into the gym, you won’t actually cause the. Minor damage to the, uh, muscles that actually leads to growth. You’ll actually impede your benefit. So you need to have a certain amount of oxidative stress, inflammation and, and that stress causes the body to react and get stronger.

Ron: I would agree with that. Right. But that, that, the problem is at our level, we’re addicted so bad. It is hard to break it off when you had enough. Sure, because a lot of it comes conditioning too. As your conditioning gets better, you can take a more load. You take a more load. Then, then you become overtrained.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. So one of the things I like to look at is [00:25:00] heart rate variability. And you can see when you have a high rate of heart rate variability that shows that you’re recovering from your workouts. And when that starts to drop, that shows that you’re not recovering as well and you need more rest. So there are some things we can look at to gauge whether we’re over training or not.

Ron: I agree. But you know. Be being in this bodybuilding or whatever I do, it is very addicting and it’s pretty hard. I talk to guys in the gym all the time and they’re six days a week, you know, and they wonder why they’re nothing happening. And I tell ’em, cut back. Cut back a little bit. It is very difficult to cut back.  It’s, it is extremely addicting.

Dr. Weitz: Well, there’s worse things you could be addicted to, Ron.

Ron: I agree. You’re absolutely right, my dear friend. You’re absolutely right.

Dr. Weitz: All right, so, um, any further things we want to talk about?

Ron: Tell ’em where you can get all the products. So, you know, your, uh, probably your sprouts, uh, your, uh.[00:26:00]  Uh, uh, vitamin Cottage, which is a national chain of, uh, vitamin they’re called, or Vitamin Shop. Were in there, uh, almost only any independent health store and online. Of course, that would be how

Dr. Weitz: are, how are the independent health food stores doing? Are they still doing okay? 

Ron:  Or the ones that have a Ben Weitz or a Ron Beckenfeld, somebody come in there that has, knows their business.  People love to get out and meet people, you know? Yeah. We, we, we’ve structured our pricing so the little guy can sell at Amazon’s price and make a, it’s called a map, that they can make a real good profit. We’ve made an extreme effort at that so they can make a very good profit and sell at the same price, or we are on Amazon, so when the people come in and they start shopping ’em.

They, they, you know, they’re right there, but they, and to ask you really, your que that the guys that are are knowledgeable know their business are maybe a, some kind of a small time town celebrity, they’ll do wonderful. It’s [00:27:00] like any business, Hey, the business could be booming everywhere and some people just go outta business no matter what.

Right? Yeah. No matter what, uh, the guys that have survived through this internet and all that are, are doing fine. I think.

Dr. Weitz: You gotta provide personalized services, is what you’re saying.

Ron: Absolutely. That’s the game. A lot of people like to go out, you know, you, uh, in the old days, maybe your mom would go to the, to the, uh, store or the butcher and they’d know the butcher and start to gab and, hi, how you doing?  Right. You know, how you doing Mr. Or why, how you doing? And that, that is offered there. And I still think as people want communication at that level, right. You know, people are people, these machines and everything. You, you, you lose your interactive, I mean, they kind of. I don’t know, what’s the word for you?  Just use your, your humanity with all the computers and all that stuff. Yeah.

Dr. Weitz: Unfortunately that’s gonna be getting worse and worse with people having robots and, you know, people have AI companions and who knows how far this is all gonna go.

Ron: Well that’s why, to answer your question, I think the [00:28:00] guys that run a good business, they’re very personable.  We’ll do fine. And they love being in the store and schmoozing with the customers. Yeah, I, I, we see a, we have a very strong telemarketing in here, and we talk to the people. Even at home, they, I’m just talking to one of our, our staff today, and they talk to people and they, they, they start opening up.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah.

Ron: Yeah.

Dr. Weitz: So how can people find out about getting your products? 

Ron: Well, again, we’re on Amazon, Walmart, uh, almost any, any internet and MO and, and quite a few independent health food stores.

Dr. Weitz: Okay, Ron, thank you so much. Nice talking to you again. 

Ron:  Okay, Ben. 

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Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast.  For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and give us a five star ratings and review. As you may know, I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine. If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and want to prevent chronic problems and wanna promote longevity.  Please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.

Dr. Jeffrey Bland discusses Longevity and Functional Medicine with Dr. Ben Weitz.

[If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so more people will find The Rational Wellness Podcast. Also check out the video version on my WeitzChiro YouTube page.]

 

Podcast Highlights

In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, Dr. Ben Weitz engages in a compelling conversation with Dr. Jeffrey Bland, recognized as the father of functional medicine. They discuss the origins and development of functional medicine, addressing its current acceptance and challenges within the mainstream medical community. Dr. Bland shares insights on various protocols such as gut healing, metabolic detoxification, and mitochondrial support that have transformed patient care over decades. The dialogue extends to longevity science, emphasizing the importance of personalized care, immune rejuvenation, and innovative approaches like epigenetic clocks and nutrient interventions. 
00:26 Meet Dr. Jeffrey Bland: The Father of Functional Medicine
03:29 The State of Functional Medicine Today
04:55 The Evolution and Validation of Functional Medicine
09:23 Personalized Medicine and N of One Studies
15:49 Longevity: Measuring and Promoting a Longer Life
21:59 The Role of Diet in Longevity
27:10 The Apollo Wearable: Enhancing Your Well-being
28:43 Balancing Growth and Longevity
31:23 Body’s Natural Intelligence and Modern Challenges
33:06 Functional Medicine and Personalized Treatment
35:24 Protein and Nutritional Balance
37:48 Innovations in Functional Medicine
50:22 Personal Longevity Strategies
53:18 Final Thoughts and Resources
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Dr. Jeffrey Bland is the Father of Functional Medicine. Dr. Bland has a PhD in biochemistry and he taught college biochemistry before going to work for the Nobel Laureate, Dr. Linus Pauling as the Director of Nutritional Research. Dr. Bland helped to establish science based nutrition, having worked to establish standards for evidence-based formulations, quality ingredient sourcing, and ethical manufacturing practices. Dr. Bland established the Institute of Functional Medicine as the premier educational platform to teach his science based approach to nutrition and lifestyle medicine that we call Functional Medicine.  Dr. Bland has also established the Personalized Lifestyle Medicine Institute and Big Bold Health, which he launched in 2018 in order to advocate for the power of immune-rejuvenation to enhance immunity at a global level. The website for Big Bold Health is BigBoldHealth.com.

 

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz: Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

Hello, rational Wellness podcasters. I’m very excited today to be having a conversation with Dr. Jeffrey Bland, who I am a huge of for many years. In case you don’t know, Dr. Jeffrey Bland is the father of functional medicine, and all of us in the functional medicine community owe you a huge debt of gratitude.  Dr. Bland has a PhD in biochemistry. He started as a college professor and then he went to work with the Noble Laureate, Dr. Linus Pauling. As a director of nutritional Research, Dr. Bland helped to establish science-based nutrition, having worked to establish standards for evidence-based formulations, quality ingredient sourcing and ethical manufacturing practices that stand to this day.  Dr. Bland established the Institute of Functional Medicine as the premier educational platform to teach a science-based approach to nutrition and lifestyle medicine that we call functional medicine. Dr. Bland has also established the Personal Lifestyle Medicine Institute and Big Bold Health, which he launched in 2018 in order to advocate for the power of immune rejuvenation to enhance immunity at a global level.

My interest and passion for Functional Medicine derives directly from Dr. Bland for decades. I would go every year to the annual seminars that you would do for Metagenics. And I was an early subscriber to your monthly audio tape series long before podcasts were around, which at one time was called Preventative Medicine update.  I recall getting a cassette tape in the mail every month along with a cardboard card with summary and references, and I would put the cassette tape into my car and listen to Dr. Bland on my way to work or wherever else I was going. One thing I would always know is when I attended your seminars, I would come away with the neurons in my brain firing like crazy, but you would also include some story that would move me emotionally.  Okay, Dr. Bland, you have that rare combination of insane intellect with a deep sense of caring for humanity. I’m not somebody who’s a believer in religion, but over the years when I would have a conversation with somebody about their religion, I would often say that the closest thing I had to a religious experience was attending a Jeffrey Bland seminar.  So, Dr. Bland, thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr. Bland: Oh, my word Ben, I’m just truly blown away by that incredible and review of, you know, I’m not sure I deserve all that, but it’s just really it’s exactly what I’ve, I focused my life on is the way you’ve described my priorities and passions.  So I just really appreciate that acknowledgement. It means a tremendous amount for me. Thank you.

Dr. Weitz: Absolutely. So, I want to start by having a brief discussion about the state of functional medicine. I go to the recent Institute of Functional Medicine meeting. I’m so impressed by the quality of the program.  All the incredibly smart doctors and practitioners doing great work. All the patients whose lives have been changed, including my own patients. The success of the Cleveland Clinic Functional Medicine Clinic that was set up by Mark Hyman.  And I feel so positive about the state of Functional Medicine where it’s going, but then I notice that a part of the mainstream medicine community continues to see it as pseudoscientific and quackery, including Wikipedia.  Can’t we change that? In fact, there’s no Wikipedia page for Dr. Jeffrey Bland. Also witnessed the recent New York Times article entitled An Expensive Alzheimer’s Lifestyle Plan Offers False Hope Experts Say, which for me was quite upsetting and I’m sure even more upsetting for Dr. Bredesen. I, what do you think about the state of functional medicine?  I guess we just have to accept that it’s a disruptive, it’s a change in paradigm and it’s not gonna be easily accepted, but it’s hard to believe at this point that it’s not gaining wider acceptance.

Dr. Bland: Ben, I think you stated the dilemma or the paradox very well as to where we sit right now.  So the Institute for Functional Medicine and the functional medicine concept was initiated formally in 1990. My wife actually was the first person who kind of came up with the concept and it was, as a consequence of a couple of informational meetings that we had with a group of really innovative practitioners in 1989 and 90, that led to the start of this model, the systems biology approach towards thinking about upstream or root cause medicine.  And you know, at first, I would say going way back to that period of time, 35 years ago or 36 years ago, there was still emerging science that was supporting these concepts. So it was in an early stage of support with science of, I call cell biology or with understanding the etiology of chronic illness.  But that has really changed dramatically over the last 35 years. The science actually has kind of caught up with the. Concepts that we were teaching back at the early stages of this, and we were the first people to talk about gut dysbiosis, about leaky gut, about endotoxemia, about metabolic detoxification, about mitochondrial bioenergetics.  Those were all concepts that we developed and discussed in the early nineties that were considered maybe heretical to the way that traditional medicine had been thinking about how to diagnose and treat disease. Over time, these concepts got incorporated more and kind of, folded into certain of the traditional, more traditional medical practices.

So now if we look at the field of gastroenterology, for instance, and do a survey of the published literature in gastroenterology in 2024, you’ll see literally thousands of papers that use the term endotoxemia or use the term leaky gut or use the term dysbiosis. Those have become terms that got us in trouble when we started using them early on, that are now kind of, I don’t wanna call them mainstream, but certainly more, more commonly used within more traditional quarters of medicine.  So I think it takes a while for new ideas to be tested and see if they can be incorporated into the body politic of medicine. What I can say, however, is that the rate of change as to which concepts can be incorporated now is far faster than it was when we started, you know, 30 to 50 years ago. With the information systems we have now with artificial intelligence with podcasting and communications and internet and social media we really have a much faster distribution of information than previously, which accelerates change.  Now, I think the key when you accelerate change is that you don’t want to give over quality. You want to still have excellence. You still want to make sure you’re providing information that when people incorporate these concepts in their life, that they’re gonna be likely to have positive outcomes with minimum to no adverse side effects.  So we certainly want to be cautious in moving forward, but I think we have tested these concepts now enough, the functional medicine concepts, to know that they really deliver extraordinary positive benefits and outcome with little to no adverse side effects. And you know, I, I’m reinforced in that when I look at the studies that were done at the Cleveland Clinic, the functional medicine center of the Cleveland Clinic underwent a variety of different tests using traditional scientific evaluation of the treatment protocols against standards of care.

And then the question was how did they compare standards of care to these functional medicine concepts? And it I’m very pleased to say that the research that was published over the last few years in a trials demonstrated that in fact the functional medicine approach led to improved outcome in these patients.  It wasn’t that the outcome with standards of care was bad, it was just the functional medicine was better. And so I think we’re starting to lay down the tracks now of validated in the literature, even in top journals like the Journal of the American Medical Association, studies that demonstrate the proof of principle, demonstrate the concept really clinically works, and that the concerns that people might have had about, well, what if this, what if that, what about this adverse effect are really with practitioners in the art like yourselves, become really non-existent because the the skill in being able to implement these concepts doesn’t put you out into danger zones.  What it does is it allows you to leverage what we’ve learned about the cell and how it functions in ways that lead to improve function.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. Well I also think there’s an issue with what is considered the highest level scientific evidence is a construct of a study that’s based on testing drugs. And that type of study where you just change one variable is not doable for lifestyle medicine.  And that’s one of the problems we’re up against.

Dr. Bland: Well, that’s another hugely important point I really want to compliment you in bringing that up. So we were one of the first groups, not the only, but one of the first groups to start using. This new model other than the double buying, randomized placebo control model, we started using what’s called the N of one model.  And the N of one model is where the patient becomes the internal control for their own outcome. And the reason that model is very valuable is it allows you to evaluate the effect of a complex intervention protocol where you’re changing diet, you’re changing lifestyle, you’re changing stress, you’re changing sleep patterns, exercise patterns, and you’re looking at how those things, when they’re controlled, influence single individual over time.  So you look at before and after. Now, why didn’t we do these studies before? Why weren’t they considered reasonable? The reason we didn’t do them before is that to do a lot of n of one studies, you have a huge data set of individual patient responses that requires huge amounts of number crunching in order to develop the statistics about how that would work in the average.  And we didn’t have the competing power until recently to do that. Now we have machine learning [00:11:00] capabilities and informatic capabilities on our own desktops. We have computing power that only supercomputers that were capable of doing it not too many years ago. So now we can start really implementing these n of one types of studies.

It really came out of, initially out of cancer therapeutics because as we all know, when a person is put on a chemotherapeutic program for cancer each patient is different. They differ in their type of doses and amounts of various medications they receive. And so each one is a study subject unto themself.  So that became kind of the start of the end of one studies, which we now can start using that concept into the feeling of lifestyle and functional medicine intervention. And when you use that, now you’re able to start publishing real demonstrably valid studies that use the patient or the individual against themself.

Start actually segmenting for individual responses. And you know, this whole field is built around personalization. It’s not medicine for the average, it’s medicine for the individual. So this concept is really related to the [00:12:00] frontier of personalizing care and how you assess personalized care in a group study procedure.

And I’m very proud to say that we’ve been kind of pioneering that model as we’ve done studies. And in fact, we have a study now at Big Bold Health that we’re just advancing. It’s eight, it’s an 850 person randomized placebo control trial. And what’s the fundamental model we’re using is an N of one trial in which each inpatient is tested against himself over the course of 90 days of intervention.  With a program to improve their immune system and then work doing it against a placebo group where they’re doing before and after as well. And then we will group aggregate the data, but we’ll have individual patient information that allows us to look at how people are actually responding, not just in the group, but at the individual level.  And I think this is the granularity and the specificity that probably most people would want to know exists when they’re going on to therapy. How does it relate to me, not the group, but me individually? How do I’m, how am I gonna respond?

Dr. Weitz: I think that’s amazing.  It’s clear that individualized personalized care is a medicine of the future, which is a concept that you and the functional medicine community have pioneered, and yet it’s still not being given credit for that.  But it’s clear that is we have to stop thinking of an effect of a drug that is negative as a side effect. That’s the drug. It will happen to you with your biochemistry, with your epigenetics, with your lifestyle.

Dr. Bland: I think you, again you’re saying some really important soundbites there that I think we we need to take very, IM important attention to the model that we built, the whole pharmacology of today around is a model that really grew out of the antibiotic revolution of the 1930s and forties in which we could find that there were these metabolites of mold.  Of certain fungi that would prevent bacteria from growing. And this led us to the principles starting with penicillin. That you could have a specific bug that was gonna be killed by a specific molecule and in this case penicillin. And so was the diagnosis could be the bug, the treatment could be the pill, and the outcome could be successful remediation of infection.  And so that, that led us into a fairly interesting binary and linear approach, thinking, okay, then let’s name the disease. We’ll give it a name by a certain diagnosis. Then let’s ask what are the principle factors in our body’s function that are affecting that disease? So we look for some kind of a receptor or some kind of an activity, and then we find new to nature molecule that blocks that particular function and uncouple that function for that particular activity.

And then we hopefully make it safe enough that people can take it without having a toxic reaction. And now we have an approved drug for the mass of individuals who [00:15:00] have that diagnosis. It doesn’t speak to the individual, it speaks to the mass of individuals with that diagnosis. So that is really, if you look, let’s just take one disease.  Let’s take type two diabetes. If type two diabetes was just one disease, that everybody that with that diagnosis has the same disease. We presumably only need one drug to treat it. But it’s not just one disease. It’s many different dysfunctions that we aggregate together that we call the same thing Type two diabetes.  And that’s why we now have 14 different drugs to treat diabetes type two or why lifestyle is even better than drugs because it hits many of those things simultaneously. It’s not just one shot on goal, it’s multiple shots on goal that lead then to the remediation of the problem at its cause, not just by uncoupling its effect.

Dr. Weitz: So let’s move to the topic of longevity. What do you think are some of the best ways to measure longevity and what are some of the most exciting strategies for promoting longevity?

Dr. Bland: So this is a really important front edge topic that, you know has been. Around in discussion for many decades, but is now really picking up momentum.  I recall in 1996, I can’t even believe this, when I was a professor, I wrote an article called The Biochemistry of Aging, in which I reviewed what was known at that particular time. The reason I did that is that I was working on vitamin E research in the 1970s, and it had been suggested that vitamin E as an antioxidant had some effect on the aging process.  So I got very, I. Interested in what is the aging process at the cellular level. And that led to collaboration with many different investigators back then that were studying the aging process from different perspectives. Now we’re at a much, I think more advanced understanding and we have what are called the hallmarks of aging.  These are the scientific discoveries. And depending upon who you want to listen to, there could be eight hallmarks of aging or there could be 10 hallmarks of aging. I think they’re even a couple people. 

Dr. Weitz:  I think we’re up to 12 now. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Bland: I think it’s 12. Yeah. So, these are fundamental biological processes that relate to deterioration of cellular function that we associate with aging.  And so the question is, if you were to treat each one of those 12 individually and get them to be promoted so they were functioning correctly, would you then not age and and live forever? The answer to that question is still open for discussion because we have been able to, in animal studies increase live life expectancy in animals by engaging in trying to modify these 12 hallmark of aging by up to 50% in some animals, even in in mammalian animals like monkeys.  There’s been considerable increase in life expectancy in longevity as a consequence of calvary restriction and certain types of medications and hormones like growth hormone that have been able to extend life in animals. We have yet to really demonstrate that in humans and in part that’s a consequence of the difficulty of studying humans that live much longer.

And so who’s going to study somebody for over 60 or 70 years under controlled circumstances and who’s gonna stay on the program for 70 years? So we do have some technical difficulties in under understanding aging at the the whole body level, however. We can study these individual components to the hallmarks of aging in a more short term way.  In one of those ways, which has gained favor recently is by looking at the, imprinting of our genes with things that occur over the course of living like toxic exposures ultra processed diets, too much stress trauma and chemical pollutants. They mark our genes, particularly of our immune system with marks called epigenetic marks that then are associated with the biological aging process.

And it’s been found recently. [00:19:00] Steven Horvath at UCLA started this kind of field now. It’s expanded extensively to many investigators around the world who are developing what are called these age clocks. These are algorithms that allow us to take the data that comes from the the pattern of the imprinting of our genes, and to analyze it numerically with computer assistance to actually determine kind of a functional age, I guess you’d call it a biological age.

And then see how that biological age tracks against that person’s age and birthdays or chronological age. It’s been found that many individuals who have say 55 birthdays when you do this type of study based on the way they’re living their life have a biological age that is much younger than their chronological age.

And similarly, we have found that people that have elected to lead lives in a different way. Their biological age is older than their chronological age. And then people have started to piece out what are those characteristics that are associated with younger versus older. And the simplest [00:20:00] one that we know for sure that’s associated with older is smoking.

Every study that’s ever been done shows that cigarette smoking actually leads to increased biological age by whatever clock, whatever biological clock you want to use. It always comes out showing that accelerates your biological age beyond that of your age and birthdays. We also know that excessive stress has imprinted the genes in the same way.

Now the nice thing about this, because it sounds like a pretty discouraging story, is that those marks that we put on our genes appear to be in the main reversible. So what we have put on, we can take off and put on new messages. And so that’s the the reversibility of our biological age through intervention.

And then the question, well, what is intervention? So then I go to look at the data on people that have a history of living a long life and being healthy. So we go to what Dan Butner called the Blue Zones. And the Blue Zones are [00:21:00] characteristics around the world like Sardinia and Costa Rica vba or the Philippines, and believe it or not Loma Linda, California. Right in the center of LA County, right. That’s a blue zone. So people say, hold it just a minute. How could people living in LA be in a blue zone that’s got pollution and stress and traffic and all sorts of stuff? How could that be? Well, it turns out that Loma Linda, if you know about the city is associated with a Seventh Adventist belief systems, and there’s a Seventh Adventist medical school there, Loma Linda Medical School.  And so these people believe in vegetarian diets and no alcohol and no smoking and minimal stimulants. And they live on average about six to seven years longer statistically than people that live across the street out of Loma Linda, but in, in LA County. So there is something about the way we eat and the way we live that plays a very important role in imprinting our genes.  So then we ask the question well. Let’s talk [00:22:00] about eating. What is it in their diets that are important? And this is a very big area of discussion, and my belief at this particular time is that if, and I just did actually a tour of the Blue Zones in the Mediterranean area. I went to Sardinia. I was in, I started with Portugal, went to Spain, went over to North Africa and looked at the North African Mediterranean diet, was went and went over from there to Italy and ended up in Turkey.  And so I had a chance to kind of look at the various dietary differences among the Mediterranean diet. 

Dr. Weitz:  Wait, boy, that trip must have been a huge sacrifice on your part for the sake of science. 

Dr. Bland:  It was, oh, it was horrible. You know? Yes. I, you know, we had to go really deep to sacrifices. Yes. So what I found and we’re we’re doing some research in this area and gonna publish some of these data, but.  One of the characteristics, not the only, but a major one, was that all of these cultures consume quite a bit of what I would call food of the rainbow, orange, red, blue, yellow foods. Now those are vegetables and fruits and it turns out that those foods are colored because they contain unique classes of phytochemicals that are called polyphenols and flavonoids.  There’s several thousand of these different plant derived materials and actually those re those substances are producing plants as their immune system. Plants have immune systems. They don’t have circulating white blood cells like we have in our blood, but they have aspects of the innate immune system in the plant, part of which is related to the presence of the building up of these protective polyphenols and flavonoids.  And it turns out when we eat those in our diet, we’re eating the immune system of plants and it bolsters our immune system. It communicates that, that effect over to our immune system. And we actually studied. The process by which are the the epigene genetic effects in our immune system are influenced by these food factors.

And we just published a paper in November actually from a human clinical trial used a, we used a [00:24:00] specific very high follow polyphenol food called Himalayan Tarry Buckwheat, which is being reintroduced into the United States just recently. And we found out that we could increase the the immune life span of immune cells by 47% by increasing the the polyphenols found from umay tery buckwheat.  So this was a major kind of breakthrough in our understanding of how diet can actually play a role at the cellular level in enhancing longevity and reducing advanced biological age. So I think this is at the frontier now. We get into stem cells and we say, well, what about stem cells? Well, let’s ask where the majority of our stem cells reside. They reside as hemopoietic stem cells in our bone marrow, and out of our bone marrow is derived all of our blood cells, well, their red blood cells and all of our white blood cells. And those hemopoietic stem cells can undergo injury over time as a consequence of exposure to bad diets and stress and [00:25:00] toxins.  And and that creates injury to those hemopoietic stem cells, what is called mutational injury. That actually damages the DNA, the chromosomes that make those up. And that leads to what is called this is a long term clonal, hematopoiesis of indeterminate potential. I’m just gonna abbreviate it. Chips, it leads to chips.

Dr. Weitz: There’s a Blandism, if I ever heard one.

Dr. Bland: Yeah. I’m not asking people to repeat that. So let’s just call it chips. And these chips accumulate over time at different rates and different levels. So a younger person, if they’ve got a lot of increased biological aging, has increased level of these chips, cells in their blood.  And these stick around and increase in number over time. And they’re like some people call ’em like zombie soaps. They tend to clog up and create inflammation. And so it produces what people call meta inflammation or inflammaging. That inflammaging is a process that characterize accelerated [00:26:00] biological aging, and that occurs when these cells accumulate in our blood and as a consequence of the effects on our bone marrow stem cells.  Now, the good news there again, is that just recently it’s been found that these chip cells can also be reversed to kind of cleanse. And that’s why we call it immuno rejuvenation. We can rejuvenate the immune system, we can reduce these kind of aged clinker cells and replace them with more naive functional immune cells.  So our body has the capability of getting off the ramp of immune aging and back on the ramp of immune rejuvenation, which then has effects on every cell of the body. ’cause the immune system is in, in every organ in our body. So. We are starting to transmit different information, younger information, more resilience and ability not only just to protect against flus and virus and bacterial infection, but actually to regenerate tissues because the immune system is involved with all sorts of processes of kind of recycling garbage material and building back [00:27:00] new cells and new tissues from the muscles to the liver, to the brain. So, this is, I think, a pretty exciting chapter in, in this whole feeling of this whole field of rejuvenation medicine.

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Dr. Weitz:  One of the big yin/yangs in the world of longevity science is whether we want to promote growth or whether it’s better to tamp those signals down. We know on the one hand, I. As we get older, we tend to lose muscle sarcopenia, bone osteopenia, brain function, immune function.  This can lead to falling and breaking a hip, which has a high rate of mortality. And there’s been a big push in longevity research and practice to use growth stimulating s signaling molecules like growth hormone, testosterone, a higher protein approach, and a focus on stimulating those growth pathways.  And in fact, the first paper that showed a reversal of epigenetic aging was conducted, was the Faye study, which gave patients growth hormone, DHEA, Metformin, vitamin D and zinc. However, there’s been an equally big push in longevity science to tamp down growth, to reduce mTOR and other growth pathways with fasting, a focus on reducing protein intake.  Dr. Longo has talked about the Laron Dwarfs in Ecuador who have no growth hormone and who have no cancer. Some people are using rapamycin, which partially suppresses immune function and reduces growth signaling. So how should we think of this or should we think of it as maybe like a toggle switch that we move back and forth?

Dr. Bland: Well, Ben, I want to compliment you. I think that was, drop the mic, what you just were stating that was really important news to use that cuts across many disciplines. And that. We could go on and on. So I’ll, I don’t want to diminish the significance of what you just said. I’ll just add a little bit to it.  I think you hit right into the heart of where I believe, and I want to emphasize I’m not omniscient, I don’t claim that I know everything, certainly, but from my now 50 years of experience in this field where I wanna reside at 79 years of age, and that is our body has native intelligence within our genes.  If we give our native intelligence the right information from which it can design its future, it will create an outcome that leads to a hundred plus years of good living. That is generally the case. And it will find, I wouldn’t call it a toggle switch, I would call it a rheostat. It will determine whether to turn up or turn down in, in what it needs to have in order to manage the stress or the the condition of that moment.

So at time other times, like for instance let’s use a simple-minded example. When we get sick, we generally lose our appetite. The body does that. Why does it do that? Because it has the inherent knowledge that by concentrating its energy on specific processes that are related to immune response and not using that energy for other things like digestion, which can eat up to 40% of [00:32:00] our energy in our digestive process, it’s able to really focus on then on the problems at hand.  So it has this intelligence, and then as we start to get better, our di our appetite comes back and it may be on recovery. After that we even are more hungry and so our body then will find the right resting point. The difficulty I believe we have right now is we’ve overridden based upon what’s going on in our society, the natural control points, the RTA that the body has, its native intelligence.

And we do so because we’ve laid the body into environments that then force it, sw sod one way or the other. It could be overly stress, ovary toxic nutrient deprivation. It could be related to xeno biotic exposure. It could be to too much alcohol, recreational drugs. It could be all sorts of variables.  And some of the 50,000 new chemicals had been indu introduced and in the environment that the body was not familiar with until the last 20 years. And all of those things then kind of [00:33:00] alter the ability of the body to maintain this resilience, this capacity to turn up and down as it needs.

So then we get into, in the medical world. Where people come in and they’re locked into a new form of homeostasis. It’s not the homeostasis of health, it’s the homeostasis of dysfunction. It could be the inflammatory cascade, it could be allergies, it could be di digestive micro gut microbiome dysfunction that leads to dysbiosis.

And those then kinda lock the rheostat into a specific position for which we then therapeutically need to do things to get ’em reset. It doesn’t mean we might put them on that forever. It might it might be that we need to have them onto a treatment program for some prescribed period of time to allow their native wisdom to regain that kind of native state of resilience.

And I think that’s what the functional medicine practitioner both is understanding and good at. Is designing a program that’s personalized to that [00:34:00] individual’s need that is, is capable of bringing ’em back into their own setpoint. And so that’s why I’m, if you look at the original publication in the New England Journal of Medicine on the use of growth hormone in each individuals, it was very encouraging and it talked about people improved skin elasticity, gaining muscle mass more energy.

They were sleeping better, so there was a rush to. Did everyone be on growth hormone replacement therapy? I was back in those days I said, but look very cautiously at this because continued growth hormone therapy has also been associated with dysglycemia and diabetes and liver problems and other side effects because the body’s not used to being as an adult growth hormone driven at for a long period of time.

So maybe it’s a therapeutic tool. It might be great to rebalance, but as a long-term application for, you know, something to make you 30 when you’re 70, I’m not sure that’s gonna prove out to be a good idea. And I think my [00:35:00] concern has been realized now over the last 20 years that these tools that we often have available to us might be best applied short term to get us back into balance so that our body’s native wisdom can then take over once again.  And quite honestly trying to be 30 when you’re 70 maybe is not a really good idea. Maybe we should be really a healthy 70. Right. And have the full virtue of being a healthy 70. 

Dr. Weitz:  What do you think about the protein argument?

Dr. Bland: Well, again, there’s another really strong example because I do believe that people that have been on the standard American diet, which if people often say is SAD, the SAD diet is a diet that has been imbalanced both for mi, both for macronutrients that’s protein, carbohydrate, and fat, and micronutrients, vitamins and minerals.  So we might then say that if we wanted to really improve a person’s health, we would want to address these imbalances that have occurred as a [00:36:00] consequence of the nutrient deprived diet. Now. That leads us to ask the question, how much protein do we need? How much carbohydrate, and what type of carbohydrate?  What kind of fat and what percentage fat? ’cause it’s not just the amount, it’s also the composition. So I think Gabrielle Lyon has done a tremendous job of helping us to understand that protein is a feature of our diet that is very important for fueling the body’s myocyte, the muscle cell. That it is protein that has to be properly balanced with regard to its cons, constituent of amino acids, the eight essential amino acids, particularly these branch chain amino acids.  So we think of leucine and isoleucine, but we also know that if you were to overdue leucine and isoleucine, it’s associated with dysglycemia and it causes insulin impairment and can lead to problems [00:37:00] with regard to blood sugar control. So I think that these terms that we’re using now are good for the professional.  What I’m concerned about is average people who pick up a book and don’t understand all the nuances and subtleties they then start introducing, you know, well I’m gonna take you know, 200 grams of protein a day because I really need to start building muscle. I. And they get emia, they get liver problems, they have a kidney overload, and they start then having adverse effects.  And they wonder why they don’t feel like they should when they read the book, it’s because they didn’t know proper balance points. And that’s why people like you I think, are so important in helping to introduce intelligent balancing of these principles so that we can use the tools in the appropriate way.

Dr. Weitz: Let’s talk about some of the innovations that you have established as some of the large levers that we can use to alter physiology and to help patients [00:38:00] make changes including the four R gut healing protocol, metabolic detoxification, mitochondrial support.

Dr. Bland: I think that when I look back now it’s hard to believe when I say this.  Actually, I did almost flummoxes me 50 years. I gave my first. Seminar for health professionals on metabolic health 50 years ago, last November. I remember that because I was nervous as heck. And it was the first attempt to try to explain these concepts to a health professional audience. That was 6 million miles ago of travel.  And I’m not exaggerating. I’ve traveled 6 million miles since then. Wow. And had the chance to be taught and learn from so many remarkable people around the world that I had the privilege of meeting and having in classes and getting to, to learn from. And of all of that, if I was to [00:39:00] distill down the things that I think I’m most proud of, the things that have stuck, I.  Continue to be developed and used. It’s the three clinical tools that you just described. And again, I don’t want to take individual credit for these were developed by myself and my colleagues over the, those periods of time. But I’m proud that I was involved with the groups. It kind of introduced these concepts into clinical practice.  The first you mentioned was the what we call gastrointestinal restoration program, which we firstly started off with four Rs and that was remove, replace, re inoculate repair. That was the mnemonic that we used for its introduction. And I can’t. Even begin to say how many hundreds of thousands of people have benefited from that program over the last well, we introduced in 1991, so that’s coming up 35 years, I guess.  And there, there are countless numbers of people that have valued from having this program introduced into life. 

Dr. Weitz:  And I have to say, in my practice, I treat a lot of patients for functional gastro GI issues, and that continues to be the backbone of our thinking about helping them.

Dr. Bland: Well, thank you. That’s very gratifying to, to hear that The second concept that we developed that I’m also proud of and again, I don’t want to overstate that we invented this, we were just part of the development of the process that we call metabolic detoxification.  Now, prior to that. There were many historical uses of detoxification programs by traditional healers and herbalists and nutritionists. And so, you know, it had a legacy history that goes way, way back prior to that. But I think what we contributed is to kind of delve deeply into what’s going on in the body when you introduce certain foods that we say help to detoxify.  And so we started looking at the family of enzymes in the liver [00:41:00] that were only discovered in the 1970s. I it was amazing actually, to me that was, we started to study this in the middle 1980s. That, that it was still a fairly new body of science. And these are called the detoxification enzymes that are present within our liver and other tissues.  And they’re members of a family of, over a hundred different genes that are called the cytochrome P450 enzymes. And I won’t get into all the machinations of it, but it turns out that this complex pathway of the ability the body has to get rid of bad stuff is genetically conserved across many animals, goes way, way back in, in phylogeny.  And it would only recently have been discovered and studied. And then we started asking the question, well, gee, what do nutrients have any effect on this series of processes in the body? And we came to recognize that the answer was yes. There were a number of investigators that were starting to look [00:42:00] at the genetics and the biology of how these compounds in food influence those detoxification enzymes.

And interestingly the field called pharmacogenomics was driven. By pharmacologists who wanted to know how drugs are detoxified because the same pathways that detoxify foreign chemicals that are influenced by nutrients are the same pathways that detoxify pharmaceuticals. So if a person had a genetic polymorphism of a gene called cytochrome P four 50 2D six, that was just one of the many.

Then it turns out that if you tried to give them an SSRI drug, they couldn’t properly detoxify and they were potentially able they’re potentially vulnerable to toxicity and even death by taking that drug because their body couldn’t get rid of it. So this field [00:43:00] of pharmacogenomics started to look at, wow, not everybody’s the same in the way they respond to drugs.

Maybe this is related to their ability to toxify. And then we extended that out into the nutrition field saying, now, hold it just a minute. Many of these cytochrome P four fifties, both what we call phase one and phase two detoxification enzymes. The conjugate enzymes are up regulatable through certain nutrients.

And so we started to look at what nutrients are they, and then we talked to look about the glucosinolate family of nutrients that come from cruciferous festivals, broccoli and cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, and cabbage. And those phytochemicals called glucosinolates in those foods get converted in the body into a series of compounds that then actually influence the body’s ability to detoxify things like Endo three Carbinol pH isobutanol sulforaphane.

These are known now to endo three. I think I, yeah, I said I three C. So these [00:44:00] particular compounds could be used therapeutically to actually enhance the body’s detoxification of foreign substances. And so we then started talking about endotoxicity. And that was toxins that come from inside the body like that microbial dysbiosis and exo toxicity, toxins that come from the outside world, like, persistent organic pollutants.

All of those go through the same pathways for detoxification. And then we developed a treatment program called metabolic detoxification. And I’m quite I guess proud of the work that was done because it raised the level of visibility of this important therapeutic tool, which I find very interesting that there are people that still criticize this concept.  I don’t think they’ve really studied, actually, what we have learned over the last 10 to 15 years about its biology.

Dr. Weitz: No, of course not. ’cause it’s been bastardized and people just put a few supplements in a box and say, if you just do this, then you’re gonna detoxify without the concept of the [00:45:00] changing the diet and modified fasting and a whole program that all fits together and is individualized for that person as well.

Dr. Bland: Exactly. So then that, well, by the way I just wanna say an aside from what you just said. So there’s a lot of concern right now about whether AI is gonna take over medicine and it’s gonna replace the health practitioner. And my thought is it will, it’ll only replace the health practitioner that’s either ill-informed or not connected properly to their patients.  You’ll never get an AI program that will sent relate to the patient like a, an informed, knowledgeable, experienced health practitioner can like you. That’s never gonna be replaced. What could be replaced is a person that’s not up to speed with regard to their understanding that’s faking it, that doesn’t have good rapport with their patient.  They probably can, their job can probably be done better by AI.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, I mean, if there’s some total of your medical approach is that you look at a series of symptoms, a few lab tests, give a diagnosis, give the drug that’s approved for that diagnosis, then of course that could easily be done by a machine.

Dr. Bland: Yes. 

Dr. Weitz:  Thank you.

Dr. Bland: So that leads into the third clinical approach that I’m very proud of. And when I think back at the time I didn’t actually recognize that we were, I believe and I may be corrected on this, but I believe we were the first group to start talking about mitochondrial health.  Bioenergetics in this furnace of energy production that resides within cells. And it seemed very esoteric. And I did actually, I think the first published study on the role of dietary intervention on mitochondrial function in humans. And this was done in 19 published, was done in 1984, published in [00:47:00] 1986.  And the reason we did that study was that I had access to a new bit of technology through a colleague I had at the University of Oregon. And this was a five Tesla superconducting magnet NMR machine nuclear magnetic resonance machine, where it was big enough that a person could put portions of their whole body into this machine and measure aspects of cellular function.

So I. I recognize that one of the things that this machine could measure was the amount of a TP that was in cells. And a TP is the energy currency of cells. And the way it did that is that a TP by the name Aden and Tri Phosphate has the element phosphorus in it. And it turns out that phosphorus exists as an element in different isotope.

One of those is an isotope that has paramagnetic resonance capability. So you can actually use the [00:48:00] nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometer to look at the amount of phosphorus of a specific type, in this case, A-T-P-A-D-P, or a MP within cells in a whole organism in a, without taking a biopsy. So what we did is we had people stick their arm in this magnet in a special piece of equipment we had developed where they could exercise with their wrist, flex their muscle in their arm to exhaustion.

By just continuing to flex their hand in the spectrometer. And then we measured the depletion of a TP using this machine. So that gave us a kind of a energy biograph of that person based on that muscle group. We then had ’em go on to a diet that was regenerating diet in terms of high nutrient level, particularly antioxidants.

And we then retested that’s using the same test, their a TP recharge or deep discharge rate in exercise. And we found out that after 12 weeks that they [00:49:00] can almost double, or let’s call it the other way around, they can have the speed at which they lost a TP, meaning we would conserve energy in their muscle or it would take twice as long to go to exhaustion.

And so we published that paper and it was considered at the time such an esoteric, technology and therapy that I don’t think it ever got much to the light of the day was we couldn’t get a primary journal to publish it. So we had to publish it in kind of a secondary journal, and that never got the play of the day.

This was in the middle eighties. But now lo and behold, this this technology, phosphorus 31 N Mars spectroscopy is used kind of routinely for looking at mitochondria neuropathies. And now we start to see that this concept of nutritional rejuvenation of mitochondria is possible. And so we developed this in the early nineties as part of the IFM therapeutic tools.

We developed this what we call mitochondria resuscitation. Which was our third kind of clinical tool. How do you then [00:50:00] resuscitate the bioenergetic centers of the mitochondria? And those individuals, they were either depleted or putting high demand on their mitochondria, like heavy exercise, stress of things of that nature.

Now we have a way of intervening with this treatment program called mitochondrial resuscitation. So those are the three programs that I’ve been very proud to be involved with that I think have staying power.

Dr. Weitz: Your own personal longevity program. I’m just curious what interventions that you utilize.  We have a number of medications on the market. We, me, I mentioned rapamycin. Some people you use metformin off label. There are injectable peptides. We have hormones. We have many different strategies for supplements, NAD precursors. We have Urolithin A, we have methylene blue. We have all these different things.  I’m wondering, are there, which, which of these do you think are, do you take?

Dr. Bland: well, first of all, I think each one of those that you, me just mentioned, including stem cells and you know, cellular biology all have a role when applied. In the appropriate ways to the appropriate patients. Yeah.

Dr. Weitz:  And there’s even more advanced therapies like regenerative plasma therapy that Dr. Hasi talked about and things like that. Exactly.

Dr. Bland: So I would not discount any of those for me personally at 79. You know, I’m a have been for many decades now, a kind of a biohacker kind of guy as it relates to following my numbers.  And so for me, it’s all about keeping my physiological parameters within what I consider my functional range and what do I need to keep them there. I’m not looking for super, for performance. I’m not competing anymore in athletics. I’m still am. I would consider myself active in, in kind of non-competitive athletics.  So for me, I have, I can, as long as I stay on my program, as long as I eat a high [00:52:00] rainbow diet with high nutrients I take you know, and have taken for now decades a high potency multivitamin and multiple mineral supplement. I I take Omega-3 fatty acids in a form that has pro resolving mediators in them.  I take a pre prebiotic and probiotic and I try to eat a diet that is very low glycemic load that keeps my A1C around 5.3 or lower and keeps my H-S-A-R-P below measurable and try to stay within our body’s resilience to allow my body to find its its resting point. So I’ve been fortunate.  I think because I got into this, I. This conceptualization fairly early. I didn’t fall off the edge and have to do a lot of resurrection of of injury. And I think that, I really give my mother credit for that. My sister and I were raised with, you know, no white bread, no desserts, no sugar that, you know, we thought we were abused as children, but now we recognize she’s pretty smart.  And [00:53:00] so I think I got the good luck, my sister as well, who was three years younger as I, you know, she’s a marathoner and a snowboarder and all that kind of stuff in her seventies. So I think that we, it depends on where we are in this livestream as to how much we need to rejuvenate and what therapy is required.

Cool.

Dr. Weitz: Alright, so, I don’t want to use up any more of your time than we have already. I really appreciate it. Are there any final thoughts you wanna leave our viewers and listeners? I.

Dr. Bland: Well, I want to compliment you. I think you’re doing a fantastic job of describing this landscape in which we now live many options that we didn’t have available.  A lot of information that is really helpful in people constructing their own livestream to be more in charge of their health rather than the victim. I’d encourage people to really think the seriously about the fourth pillar beyond the three that I mentioned, which is what I’m spending all of our time working on now, which is this immuno rejuvenation concept.  I think we have under valued the resilience of our immune systems. You know, there’s only two systems in our body that speak to the outside world, 24-7, 365. That’s the nervous and immune systems and the immune system pick, picks up these signals and then translates to the whole body. Every organ in our body has part of the immune system.

So what we’re learning, and I, again, come back to this, start down the road here with the, understanding of these blue zones, that the immune systems of these individuals when they start looking at immune age are a lot younger than people in less controlled environments where they’re exposed to all sorts of junk.  And so this construct that we’re building, and that’s why I started Big Bold Health a number of years ago, and we just happened onto this 3,500 year old food that was completely absent in the American diet. I couldn’t even find it in the United States called Himalayan Toy Buckwheat that has 126 immune active nutrients that really have been found in the studies that we’ve done to date.

And we’re just turning this large clinical trial of [00:55:00] 850 placebo controlled subjects. To look at actually how Ucky influences the immune system in terms of its function. So I’d encourage people to really start looking at their immune system, and we see so much pre autoimmunity now. We see so much allergy.

We see so much gut inflammation and chronic low grade inflammatory conditions. And you know, precognitive dysfunction as it relates to memory effects and sleep and mood. All of those are in influenced by the immune systems activity. So I would encourage people to look at our big, bold health website or the jeff bland.com website, jeffreybland.com. Lots of materials there that people can learn from and learn more about their immune systems.

Dr. Weitz: I, I think for everybody who’s not quite following the importance of this is the immune system is crucial for healthy aging. As people get older, they tend to die from COVID, from the flu, et cetera.  And one of the things they looked at in some of these studies [00:56:00] on longevity is they look at what’s called thymic evolution, which is the thymus gland, which is one of the important parts of immune system tends to shrink with age. And maintaining that thymus gland, maintaining the integrity immune system is so important.  And I think we need to have a wider understanding of exactly what it means to promote a healthy immune system. I think there’s a tendency to think that the immune system is either up. Or it’s down, and if you have autoimmunity, your immune system’s too high. So we’re gonna use medications that just block part of your immune system, and that’s not the case.  The immune system’s outta balance. We need to have a more complex understanding of it.

Dr. Bland: Yeah, I think you said that beautifully. And it’s really interesting to me when you start thinking about the the immune system and how it defends us, that it’s actually reconstructing the body all the time.  And in fact, it’s of [00:57:00] all the the variable things that you could measure in terms of your prediction of your longevity, the data today suggests that the data says that the biological age of your immune system is the strongest predictor of your longevity of anything you can measure. So.  Affecting your biological agent for your immune system by doing the right thing is really important to live a long, healthy life.

Dr. Weitz: So, looking at blood markers, what are some of the things you can look at for immune function? I, is it mainly the CBC and white blood cells and lymphocytes and that balance?

Dr. Bland: Yeah, I think that’s a very good place to start. That’s a gross determinant. Also, you can look at salivary Iga. That’s a good kind of, measure of your mucosal innate immunity, which is the first line of defense that your body has. That’s another good one. You can look also obviously at your serum level of high sensitivity, C-reactive protein.  That’s another important marker. So you can actually put together a fairly simple panel of tools to assess the status of your immune system.

Dr. Weitz: Then the folks that offer the epigenetic testing for longevity, they also have part of that test that’s looking at immune aging.

Dr. Bland: Yeah. Yeah. There’s several companies that are doing that.  We’ve done quite a bit of collaborative work with True Diagnostic. That’s one of the companies that is off offering that from a blood spot analysis. So to me, this is the front edge of what a person might wanna know, and they, as they interrogate how their immune system is really working as their friend and not their fault.

Dr. Weitz: Great. And how can people find out about Big Bold Health? What’s the website?

Dr. Bland: Yeah it’s just www do big bold health.com or they can go to Jeffrey Bland, J-E-F-F-R-E-Y-B-L-A-N-D.com and lastly, I, you know, if a, if they’re really a geek and they want to have access to hours and hours of videotaped information, they can go to the Personalized Lifestyle Medicine Institute.  We have a whole library of of available information from clinicians. That, and that’s it. M institute.org or just Doug, you can just type in PLMI in your your search engine and you’ll come up with a website.

Dr. Weitz: That’s great. Thank you so much Jeff, and I look forward to seeing you again at the PLMI conference in October.

Dr. Bland: I you as well, Ben, and you’re doing a fantastic job. It’s been a privilege to talk with you today. 

Dr. Weitz: Thank you very much.

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Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast. For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcast or Spotify and give us a five star ratings and review.  As you may know, I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine.  If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and want to prevent chronic problems and wanna promote longevity, please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.

Dr. Felice Gersh discusses the Rethinking Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy with Dr. Ben Weitz.

[If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so more people will find The Rational Wellness Podcast. Also check out the video version on my WeitzChiro YouTube page.]

 

Podcast Highlights

Cutting Edge Insights on Hormone Replacement Therapy and Women’s Health with Dr. Felice Gersh
In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, Dr. Ben White discusses hormone replacement therapy (HRT) for post-menopausal women with Dr. Felice Gersh, a champion of estradiol. Dr. Gersh addresses the controversial views on hormones influenced by the 2002 Women’s Health Initiative study, explaining that mainstream medicine is still hesitant to embrace HRT. She emphasizes the benefits of bioidentical hormones and criticizes the limitations of current studies and traditional approaches in functional medicine. Dr. Gersh provides insights into the importance of estradiol and progesterone for various aspects of women’s health, including brain function and prevention of chronic diseases. The discussion also covers the potential pitfalls of oral progesterone and alternatives like vaginal administration to achieve natural hormonal balance.
00:26 Hormone Replacement Therapy: A Controversial Topic
01:29 Challenges in Hormone Therapy Acceptance
02:45 The Science Behind Hormone Therapy
06:58 Historical Perspectives on Lifespan and Menopause
08:30 The Modern Healthcare System and Chronic Diseases
15:46 The Role of Hormones in Brain Health
21:44 Debating the Safety and Efficacy of Hormone Therapy
32:44 Balancing Hormones After Menopause
34:39 The Role of Estradiol and Progesterone
35:30 Impact of Hormones on Brain and Immune System
36:32 Menstrual Cycle Insights and Hormone Therapy
38:32 Challenges with Current Hormone Treatments
40:39 Optimal Hormone Levels and Administration Methods
43:44 Progesterone: Oral vs. Vaginal Administration
46:06 Progesterone Metabolites and Their Effects
58:03 Practical Tips for Hormone Therapy
01:01:11 Conclusion and Contact Information
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Dr. Felice Gersh is a board certified obstetrician and gynecologist and she is fellowship-trained in Integrative Medicine. Dr. Gersh is the Director of the Integrative Medical Group of Irvine, where she continues to see patients. The website is Integrativemgi.com and the phone is (949) 753-7475. She also lectures and writes on various topics relevant to women and she is the best selling author of three books, Menopause: 50 Things You Need to Know, PCOS SOS, and PCOS SOS Fertility Fast Track

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz:  Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

Hello, Rational Wellness podcasters. Today we’ll be discussing hormone replacement therapy and post-menopausal women, and we’ll be speaking with my friend Dr. Felice Gersh. And Dr. Gersh is a huge proponent of estrogen, specifically estradiol. And I always like to say that if Estradiol hired a spokesperson, they could do no better than hire Dr. Gersh. However, she does have some controversial views on hormones. While there are still many physicians who feel that taking hormones is risky, unfortunately much of this view is based on the results of the Women’s Health Initiative study that was first published in 2002. However, where do you think we are right now?  Do you think most mainstream doctors have come around to the idea that hormones are now generally safe, or you think we’re not quite there yet?

Dr. Gersh: I think we’re huge distances from reaching that milestone of the majority of doctors welcoming and not being afraid of hormones for women. In fact, we were just chatting before we started that I just listened this morning to a video by a very mainstream upper level person at a major clinic.  I’ll leave it at that, who is a woman. Basically she was just parroting all the talking points of the Women’s Health Initiative. Like  they were still all a hundred percent valid and, you know, reasonable and should be the guidelines for what we do today. So, and I see patients all the time that come to me because they don’t know where else to go.  Sometimes they fly across many state lines because their regular doctors will not give them hormones. They say they’re so dangerous, they won’t do it. Or they reach an age and they say, I’m gonna stop them because now you’ve reached the age when they’re going to suddenly turn from yesterday being okay to tomorrow.  They’re going to be deadly hormones, I’m gonna stop them today. And so they want to, sometimes they go off of them and they say, now I feel horrible, but my doctor won’t put me back on them. So I think we have a lot of work to do and yes, I am always honest about. Being controversial, but I always say I am totally science evidence-based, although sometimes it can’t be clinically science [00:03:00] study-based because we don’t have the studies, but we have to still make decisions today.  You know, it’s like you’re lost in the woods, you don’t have Google maps, you can do nothing. You can sit down and hope somebody comes to save you, or you make your best decision looking at the paths that exist and so on. That’s how I feel we are, we have to make the best decisions because no decision, doing nothing is actually a decision.  It’s not doing nothing. You’re, you know, because it has consequences if you don’t go on hormones and you don’t get more chances, like, well, let’s do a redo. There’s no redos, right? 

Dr. Weitz:  So I think, in general, those of us who are in the natural medicine world or the integrative or the functional medicine world, we often find ourselves trying to go by evidence.  But because what qualifies as a valid scientific study is a double-blind placebo controlled trial, which is really designed to test a drug. Very difficult to test diet that way. Very difficult to test natural methods that way. And doing these types of studies that are considered valid on enough people, women, men, et cetera, requires in today’s world, millions and millions of dollars.  And so if you’re talking about a compound that’s natural, that can’t be patented. If you’re talking about food, if you’re talking about exercise, if you’re talking about nutritional supplements, which are not going to become multi-billion dollar drugs, it’s very hard to justify those types of studies. So, we have to sometimes deal with studies that are not quite as valid as we’d like based on the model that’s what’s considered valid. And maybe we need to rethink that.  If the model for a valid scientific study is always based on a format that works for drugs, but doesn’t work for natural methods.

Dr. Gersh: Absolutely. You said it perfectly and what seems to be very much we’ll call it even a fad right now, are these meta-analyses, right?  Yes. So they take what studies have been done. This is how you publish in the academia. Oh, well, you know, you take studies that have been done and then you run them through these statistical algorithms, which nobody can understand. You know, we don’t even know what these words mean when they sort of go into their methodology, like, what the heck are you talking about?  But they take, you know, disparate studies done on, you know, varied populations using different hormonal ingredients for different lengths of time. They put them all together and then they draw conclusions like you’re now dealing with a bigger population. But every time they do that, it includes the Women’s Health Initiative, which is so domineering, it’s so huge compared to these other little studies that it, the end result is it’s always just a reevaluation of the Women’s Health Initiative and it just comes out over and over the same, and it’s been written many times.  No one is ever, no government, no entity is ever going to do another funding of a giant study like the Women’s Health Initiative. Which really had some arms that were interesting, but overall, I think it’s been devastating to women’s health over the last 20 plus years. And no study is ever going to be done, like using bioidentical hormones in different doses, different regimen.  It’s just never going to be done. So we have no choice, but to use the scientific data that we have or else we will never go anywhere. And this is the way that it will be forever. And no woman will have, I, in my opinion, the chance for optimizing longevity.  When we look back on, and I went, I was a two years ago, I had one of my bucket list trips and I went to Egypt.  So I’m looking at all these amazing diagrams on the walls of tombs and temples and all of it. And everyone in the picture, they’re all young people and it’s like, well, did not, the Egyptians not like old people, you know? So then I looked it up. If you lived through childhood, which was not the usual many people died in, in infancy and childhood, but if you survived that and you became an adult and you were a woman, your typical, you know, age that you could live to would be 35. I don’t think menopause was an issue. That’s, there were exceptions. There were the occasional really ancient people out there, but that’s, that was typical, you know, if we took a results typical, you may live to 35. And then I looked at, well, what about in the year 1200? Okay. That was more recent. In the, if you look at the entire spectrum of millennia of humanity [00:08:00] on earth, the average lifespan, if you survived childhood once again was around 50 ish. Okay. So just around like you, you didn’t have a long span of time in menopause. And once again, there were always outliers.  So the idea that you spend maybe half your life as a menopausal woman is really modern, you know? So it’s not like we’ve been dealing with this problem for thousands of years. We were just trying to survive to even get to menopause, let alone live a life as a menopausal woman. So, you know, we’re dealing now I call it the medical Whack-a-Mole, where as every problem comes about and everyone has been in very strong agreement that women live a little bit longer than men, but with more chronic diseases and more chronic ills and suffering. So you, we just do this whack-a-mole of, well, now you have this condition, we’ll give you this drug or do this procedure, and it’s one after another.  And it varies with the severity in each woman, of which organ system seems to get the most heavily impacted. And that’s why when they have these studies that show, oh my goodness, we found a link between dementia and osteoporosis. It’s like, duh. Because they all have similar underlying mechanisms so forth.  Here’s a link to everything. And they say, oh, link between this and this. It’s like, duh. So the bottom line is, my goal is to make healthcare really cheap. You know, like you don’t have to have cardiovascular surgery, you don’t have implants, you don’t have joint replacements. Of course things will happen, but if we can take steps, I mean, accidents happen, but if we can take steps proactively to lower the degenerative processes associated with aging of affecting every organ system and especially the brain, which now we’re talking about massive numbers of people in the baby boomer population, of which I am a baby boomer.

Dr. Weitz: And me too.

Dr. Gersh: There you go. Becoming demented to the point that they cannot have self care. Like who’s going to take care of all these people? You know, we’re going to have massive facilities, memory care, places where we lock ’em up so they don’t wander about the streets. I mean, what on earth by the way, 

Dr. Weitz:  …at the cost of a hundred grand a year.

Dr. Gersh: Yeah. I think that this is cheap if you give some hormones and then you do all the lifestyle stuff.  I always say hormones are foundational, but sufficient. You start with that, you know, and I just, I’m just a simple thinker. I think. Well, if you had to have your thyroid gland removed, which is like right here, and because it got really big, like you had this gigantic goiter for whatever reason, you lived in the Midwest and you never had iodine in your diet, ever.  Right? You got this giant goiter, it’s pressed, you may

Dr. Weitz: You lived in the goiter belt. 

Dr. Gersh: Yeah. You can’t breathe. You can’t, they had no choice, okay? You can’t shrink it. So they took it out and now you have no thyroid hormone. No one would say, the solution to your problem of having no thyroid hormone is, let’s put you on Prozac, or let’s give you Ambian for sleep.  Or, I mean, it’s like, this is like crazy, you know, if, and no one would even say things like, well, here’s your meditation. You know, no, that is not the solution. Those all could be useful, but they’re not the solution to having no thyroid hormone. So if you don’t have any estradiol being produced by your ovaries or progesterone, or if any other hormone, whether it’s thyroid, testosterone, is below optimal levels, you supplement or replace it.  I mean, it’s like simple thinking. You need these hormones. If you don’t have them, you give them. I mean, it’s like. Like what is what? This is not rocket science here, you know?

Dr. Weitz: So, I want to make a comment about your perspective on healthcare. I want to make a comment about brain, Bredesen and I never properly introduce you.  So then I want to introduce you and then we’ll get onto the next question. So the first comment I wanna make is that essentially what you’re saying is we should turn our sick care system actually into a healthcare system where we promote health and not simply treat diseases. And then number two, on the brain health, I don’t know if you saw the New York Times piece in which they attacked Dr.  Bredesen’s functional medicine approach to preventing and reversing Alzheimer’s disease as basically being unproven and being too expensive and being completely invalid. And it’s just amazing that they attacked this natural program that has helped thousands of patients. And yes, they haven’t had a randomized clinical doubleblind placebo control trial using a functional medicine approach. But they are presently conducting  such a study. Of course, it’s not going to be with a hundred thousand people, but little yeah, 75 people, but it will be published next year and hopefully that will start to turn the tide.  But and yet the alternatives are these medications that reduce amyloid in the brain. These monoclonal antibody drugs that cost 40, 50, $60,000 a year and don’t make anybody better. The most they do is, make people worse at a slower rate. Right. And have all these side effects like bleeding in the brain and all kind know

Dr. Gersh: I’m, yeah, I,

Dr. Weitz: And you know, it’s so sad that we’re so closed minded to an alternative approach.  And if you look at, even if his program costs whatever you want to say over a period of a few years, let’s say at the max it’s going to cost you $10,000, but compared to paying $60,000 a year for when he’s monoclonal antibody drugs and then having to pay a hundred thousand dollars a year to be in a memory care facility for years on end and having no quality of life.  And for those who read the article, please go to the comments. ’cause there was a comment from one of the women who was in the study and she said, I am Sally. I was mentioned in the study and kind of breaking up prior to following the Bredesen program, which was the most beneficial thing I ever did.  I didn’t wanna live anymore and now my life is totally turned around and I can function and I can go to work and I’m a new person. So make sure you read that comment.

Dr. Gersh: well. Yeah, I was just brokenhearted reading that and it is true that when you hold things to a standard that is unattainable because no one’s going to pay for those kinds of studies, right.  And when you look at what is being actually promoted, as therapeutics for dementias and Alzheimer’s, which are not beneficial in heart if at all. In fact, when they’ve done studies comparing Aricept, which probably made billions of dollars to sure. To placebos. They couldn’t really find any difference.  And it was all subjective. It’s like Mary smiled today, she’s obviously doing better, but it might have been gasp, but we don’t know. But you know, it’s like so unbelievable slowing. It’s like so hard. They’re slowing the progress and it’s hard to even really measure that. And by the way, I checked out, it’s about 20,000 a month now in memory care.  So the price just doubled.

Dr. Weitz: Wow. And by the way, they do nothing to help you in those facilities. You know? They don’t do anything. Good luck to give you any therapeutic care. Yeah. And by the way, one of the reasons why we’re mentioning the Bredesen program is because Dr. Bredesen is an advocate for women sometimes in their seventies to start taking hormones and finding that they’re a [00:16:00] huge benefit.

Dr. Gersh: Well, I remember years and years ago, it was be, well before the Women’s Health Initiative came out, I was at a lecture and they showed slides of. Neurons. So this was not in a person. This was like in a culture medium. And in the culture medium, they had two sets of neurons and one culture medium contained estradiol and it looked like a lush forest. These neurons were so happy, right? And in the other one they looked like dead sticks. And there were no, there was no estradiol. And it’s like, I picked that one, the one that looked, that’s me. I want that my to be my brain and so on. And by the way, just a little bragging writes here in his latest book, Dr. Dale Bredesen mentioned me as big pro an advocate for hormones. It’s like, thank you. Very cool. And so of course I, I support what he’s doing and I’m going to be as much as anybody else, a person to say there’s no way that we know now that we can [00:17:00] actually reverse the very end stages of every disease.

But there, like if you are in the end stages of heart failure. In the end stages of diabetes, right, of an end stage disease. The best you can do is a little improvement. Okay? Sure. But it wasn’t that long ago that it was said that you can’t reverse diabetes. Now we know. I mean now it’s proven. No, I’m gonna say in the, at least the first decade of, and pre-diabetes can always be reversed.  Right. And diabetes in the first decade, you can reverse it. We know that there’s like autoimmune in the conventional world, they say you can’t reverse autoimmune diseases, but we know in the early stages you can reverse it.

Dr. Weitz: Yes.

Dr. Gersh: So, so we’re turning the tide on how you even view chronic diseases, that they can be reversed.  And I a hundred percent believe knowing the resilience, the neuroplasticity of the brain. And that’s what I look at in terms of the hormones. And as you know from. Previous recent [00:18:00] conversations that I’ve expanded in terms of my advocacy to include progesterone and also I do talk, you know, on the benefits of every other hormone because we don’t wanna leave them outta the mix here.  They’re all important, right? I just, you know, put estrogen at sort of the pi, the pinnacle, right? They all work in this beautiful, you know, synergy of symphony and all those kinds of words that we use to talk about how they work together. But definitely in especially the earlier stages of cognitive decline, you can have massive reversal due to neuroplasticity, you can improve inflammation.  We now know that underlying neuroinflammation, which is aligned with systemic inflammation and then all the other systems of the body, the autonomic nervous system, the gut microbiome, all these things interlink and it’s related to both lifestyle and hormones and all of these critical factors that when you get things better and [00:19:00] neuroinflammation goes down, you improve.

And we know that cognitive health and emotional health are completely interconnected. So when you know they go together and they’re both now related to neuroinflammation. And then, you know, you get into the nitty gritty of well, you know, energy and mitochondria and these are wonderful, fun topics to go into.  And, but when we get to the point where I wish we would be, I think we should be, but I don’t know why we’re not universally, but it’s growing of, and it’s more growing from the bottom up than the top down. You know, it’s coming from the population that is of women that is now, they’re demanding hormones.  It’s not coming from the academics, you know, at the top, you know? Right. Coming by saying, let’s get everyone in and give them hormones for life. That isn’t what’s happening. It’s the women themselves who are now the demanding factor here in driving this machine of wanting hormones and then getting [00:20:00] other.

Practitioners, some of which know what they’re doing, and some are just trying to know what they’re doing. You know, I, I assume everyone has good motives. Yeah. And to try to help women. But if we get to a point where we could say hormones are good, you know, like there are many things to be afraid of on this planet, but, you know, bioidentical hormones should not be on the list.

You know, how about chemicals and deadly guns? And we can make a lot of lists of things to be afraid of, but, you know, bioidentical hormones just should not be on that list. Right? Then you get to this really complex issue and I really hate it when I call it like the hormone wars of different groups who are promoting the benefits of hormones for women and throughout menopause.

You know, starting now in the perimenopause, which is now the thing, recognizing all the harm that is happening years, like a decade. Before and then really escalating in the previous five years [00:21:00] before that artificial label of now you’re menopausal which is arbitrarily defined as 12 consecutive months without any bleeding.

Right. And you know, so if you’re a hyster ized, it’s like, good luck you had that. So I don’t go into menopause because I had a hysterectomy. Yeah, you do. Okay. Forget the language. You know, it’s about ovarian. Aging. It’s not about your uterus. The uterus is a recipient of the hormones just like your brain and your every other organ system in the body.  But if we can get to the point of saying hormones are beneficial, and losing them is harmful, by the way, everyone agrees that losing them is harmful, but they can’t get to the other side of the mountain of saying and giving them is beneficial.

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Dr. Weitz:  I’ve really been enjoying this discussion, but I just want to take a few minutes to tell you about a product that I’m very excited about.  Imagine a device that can help you manage stress, improve your sleep, and boost your focus. All without any effort on your part. The Apollo wearable is designed to just to do just that, created by neuroscientists and physicians. This innovative device uses gentle vibrations to activate your parasympathetic nervous system, helping you feel calmer, more focused, and better rested.  Among the compelling reasons to use the Apollo wearable are that users experience a 40% reduction in stress and anxiety. Patients feel that they can sleep. Their sleep improves up to additional 30 minutes of sleep per night. It helps you to boost your focus and concentration and it’s scientifically backed.  And the best part is you can get all these benefits with a special $40 discount by using the promo code Weitz, W-E-I-T-Z, my last name at checkout to enjoy these savings. So go to Apollo Neuro and use the promo code Weitz today. And now back to our discussion.

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Dr. Gersh:  Losing. I know, I’ve always thought that was insane.

Dr. Weitz:  How can these hormones that have been in your body for decades and we know are responsible for women having lower rates of heart disease and having all these other benefits that suddenly after menopause, putting those hormones back is now harmful?

Dr. Gersh: So, absolutely. So here’s the problem. There are studies that show that you have and one just got published.  It’s like really upsetting in a way because people read these things. It was a recent study looking at in the uk thousands of women who had early onset of menopause, like around age 40 or a little before age 40, which we know is [00:24:00] bad, right? Right. The longer you have your hormones, the better off your organ systems are.

Dr. Weitz: Right?

Dr. Gersh: And they found hardly surprising that the women who went into early menopause had higher. Rates and earlier onset of dementias. Okay. We, you and I knew that, but they had to prove it again. So good for proving that. Like we said, it’s been kind of universally agreed that losing hormones is not good for women to lose them.  And the earlier you lose them, the more rapidly you start having problems. But what they also said in that article, they said women who used hormones, at least like for 11 years or longer, they had higher rates of dementia, the hormone users. So, oh my goodness. So how could that be? Once again, how can it be Of course, I’m sure.  That it was, you know, Prempro because, you know, they just took any what were you on Hormones they didn’t like say what kind of hormones like were you on hormones? Okay. Did you fill a prescription? I mean, they’re not even talking to you.

Dr. Weitz: You’re pointing to the fact that Prempro is estrogen from a horse and synthetic progestin as opposed to bioidentical natural estrogen and progesterone.

Dr. Gersh: Technically they are endocrine disruptors, that they’re not human hormones, right? And anything that is not a natural human hormone is an endocrine disruptor. It means it acts differently on the production distribution, utilization elimination, degradation of hormones in our body. It’s not the same. So they’re basically endocrine disruptors.  And we now know that they have harmful effects, like dramatically increasing the risk of blood clots with the conjugated equine estrogens and increasing dementia and breast cancer from hydroxy progesterone acetate. But in any case, that’s what was written in the article, like, so the longer you’re on hormones, the more likely you’re gonna have dementia.  So. This obviously makes, how can this be? If you have your own [00:26:00] natural hormones longer, you have less dementia. But if you give hormones back, you have more dementia. So what did this come down to? It obviously is what we’re giving and how we’re giving it. I mean, it’s like such a simplistic, obvious solu answer to how can, if you have natural hormones, everything is good, but when you give hormones, things are not good, you know?

So it has to be how we’re giving them, what we’re giving them. I mean, of course, we all recognize this, that, you know, the Prempro product was not the ideal product. But now we are in this situation where even among the groups and they’re growing clearly in response to women’s demands as well, of giving hormones that giving hormones is good and beneficial for the long run for the life of the woman.

Then the question really comes down to, What are we going to give? How are we going to give it? And this is really where I’m doing my most focusing now is because I am so tired of defending hormones, which I will continue to do. Okay. Because I have to still do it because, you know, there’s still maligned it.  Like if you constantly had to defend avocados, I used to have to do that because like, fat is not evil. I know there’s fat in avocados, but avocados are not evil. Neither are walnuts. They’re not evil, you know? So, but I don’t have to defend fat so much anymore. But I still, I have to defend hormones. But now

Dr. Weitz: I think we’re going to put a tariff against hormones.

Dr. Gersh: I.  We can, but you can’t stock up forever. They do expire, but but the thing is, this is where we do not have adequate studies and we probably never will. This is like a huge problem. So I look at the data that’s, that we do have, some of them are very talk about studies. Some of them could be like 10 people, you know?  I mean, because it’s collecting scientific data. It’s not like a big randomized study because no one’s funding them and there isn’t enough interest in these topics and which is so sad. But women have to make a decision and providers have to decide what they’re gonna be providing in their prescriptions.  And it’s all over the place now, as you know. And of course you’re going to have different outcomes. I mean, one of the little truisms that I always have to spew is dose matters. You know, like, like how could dose not matter? Right? But you know, the mantra after the Women’s Health Initiative was the smallest dose.  For the shortest amount of time and the smallest dose to suppress night sweats and hot flashes because that was the only indication and still remains pretty much the only official indication is suppress night sweats and hot flashes. Forget about everything else. And it turns out it can consider it a blessing or a curse that the amount of estrogen, even a little progesterone or testosterone, seems to be able to do it.

That will suppress night sweats and hot flashes is like a whiff, but the amount that you would want to actually do more than that is going to be a higher amount. Now it does turn out as well that the amount of estradiol to help to stop bone loss. So it will slow the the, you know, the resorption of bone is also a relatively small amount, but the problem is that it’s not gonna be the same if you want to work on brain, if the, if you think about growth factors, okay?  One of the problems that’s never ending is the uterus. And nobody wants to have the uterine lining grow because if you grow it, you must shed it. You can’t grow the uterine lining and then [00:30:00] just let it keep growing. It’s gonna become unstable, fall out, and then you get random bleeding, and that’s not acceptable to anybody.

And you’ve gotta do something. So you so the solution that’s most common now is to give tiny amounts of estradiol. Often if you measure the level in the blood, which is the gold standard, and it’s measured in picograms per milliliter, the levels remain in the menopausal range. They’re so low because you can still have, if you go from a level that is 15 to 30, which is still menopausal level you can actually have some reduction.  It may take 12 weeks. I mean, that’s the kind of length of time. Stick with it for 12 weeks and see to suppress night sweats and hot flashes. You’re not sure, like, what is that? Is that placebo? It takes eight to 12 weeks. But in any case, giving little bits of estradiol will help in that regard.  It seems, but you’re not gonna grow too much. [00:31:00] You will still grow a little bit of uterine lining over time, like drip. If from the faucet, if the drain is plugged, eventually. The sink basin will be filled with water and overflow, and eventually some women will start having random bleeding even on these teensy doses.

Dr. Weitz: Let me just step in for one second. For those who aren’t following exactly. What you’re saying is during a normal woman while she’s menstruating, her hormones will cause uterine lining to grow. And then because there’s a natural cycle for the progesterone, as the progesterone drops during the last two weeks of the cycle, and then during the period the uterine lining is shed.  So you never get this extra buildup of the uterine lining. And now if you start taking hormones and you take them every day and you don’t get that natural period, you’ll potentially have the ute uterine lining grow and not be shed ’cause you’re no longer having this [00:32:00] cyclical situation and having a period.

Dr. Gersh: Right? So a normal female cycle has estradiol and it’s not gonna be the same level through the whole cycle and. Then after you ovulate, which is like around mid cycle, then you make progesterone, and then if you’re not pregnant, it comes down and the estrogen and the estradiol and the progesterone levels.  Plummet, you know, stroop, they really plummet. And then the uterine lining is shed in a coordinated, organized fashion. So it’s not like random pieces just falling out over the next three weeks. So it’s like a coordinated elimination of the uterine lining. But if you don’t want to have, if you’re like. 55 and you or your provider said, well, who wants to bleed after menopause?  So we are gonna try to keep you from bleeding and still give you hormones. And that’s sort of a diametrically opposed situation here, [00:33:00] because if you have a woman and you don’t want her to bleed, but you want her to have hormones, then you have to make certain accommodations like give tiny doses of estradiol to have less growth factor effect so that you’ll grow less uterine lining because there’s a dose relationship here.

And then you give progesterone and it’s typically given as an oral pill every night. Typically in a dose of a hundred milligrams. Sometimes people go higher and you give it every night because progesterone has sort of both synergistic and antagonistic effects with estradiol, depending on the situation and in the uterine lining.  It actually suppresses growth. And so it blocks the growth and then it makes the lining see like flourish. We call it secretory. And, but if you give tiny amounts, progesterone down regulates the [00:34:00] receptors. There’s this sort of interaction of the receptors of these different hormones. They, nothing is like com is simple.  It’s all complex. So progesterone downregulates the function of the receptors of estrogen. So you give progesterone all the time, every day to suppress the function and growth of the uterine lining, you know, and the function of the estrogen. And then you give tiny amounts of estrogen, usually keeping the levels within the menopausal ranges that women would have.

And then you, the goal is not to bleed. Although occasionally, like I said, the women will bleed anyway. But here’s the problem with that. That is not in any way aligned with the way a human, female body would ever work at any time in her life. And so there’s a lot of compromises that go into that in terms of long-term outcome.

And I think that is one of the contributors to why they’re not showing when they do [00:35:00] studies, like long-term benefits from hormones, and there’s a variety of things that are going into that. If you don’t give enough estradiol to create growth factors to grow the uterine lining, why would you think you’re creating brain derived neurotrophic factor, nerve growth factor, vascular endothelial growth factor, any of the growth factors that are necessary to create new blood vessels, tissue healing, rejuvenation of our neurons in our brains, and so on.

Why would you think that? Then when you look at what happens in the brain as far as the neurotransmitters, estradiol is key to the production and function of serotonin from which comes melatonin for sleep, acetylcholine, which helps make memories and modulates the vagus nerve function of the autonomic nervous system.

Dopamine, oxytocin, which is a really important little, I mean, you can call it a neuro hormone or a peptide. [00:36:00] It’s kind of on the line, but all of these rely on adequate amounts of estradiol, so there’s so many things that are estradiol related and the immune system, we know this. There’s data showing that low amounts of estradiol, like what you would have during the menstrual bleeding phase, the shedding phase.

Low levels of estradiol are actually more pro-inflammatory and high levels are very anti-inflammatory. And if you think about the menstrual cycle, it’s a great guide to everything female. In the menstrual cycle. When you’re bleeding, your estradiol levels are really low. There actually can go into menopausal range for a couple of days, and that’s when you’re most pro-inflammatory.

Because shedding, the uterine lining is actually of an inflammatory process. You make inflammatory prostaglandins in the uterine cavity that triggers some cramping. It’s like a mini version of labor, which actually is, you know, a pro-inflammatory state, right? [00:37:00] And you get cramping and the dropping of the progesterone.

Progesterone is very anti-inflammatory as well, so you are more pro-inflammatory. So it. Is this what you want? You want to create a pro-inflammatory state in your menopausal women? I don’t think so. And you need adequate estradiol to maintain the optimal gut microbiome, the diversity and that protective mucus coating that keeps you from getting leaky gut, you know, and maintains gut lining integrity.

All of that is dose related, so. And you need to also have this beautiful cycling because when you stop the progesterone, it actually is like a reboot to the receptor function. It’s like, okay, like reboot, and then the estrogen receptors come back online because they’ve been now downed by the progesterone for that phase of the menstrual cycle.

And also progesterone down regulates [00:38:00] testosterone receptors. So that’s why during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle, women have lower libido because nature doesn’t care if women have sex when they’re no longer fertile. ’cause you can’t get pregnant in the luteal phase. So it’s like, go to the next lady, you know, whatever.

You know, it’s like. Not tonight, dear. I’m go to go somewhere else because that’s nature’s way. It’s all about reproduction and success and there’s no reason for there to be libido in the luteal phase. Nothing. You’re not gonna conceive, and that’s all, it’s all about reproductive success. And so why would we wanna do that to women in menopause?

And then we give them testosterone while we’re downregulating their testosterone receptors. There’s like, but people aren’t thinking these things through. And you know, I realize that it’s not fun to have a period, but there are ways to make it manageable. Plus there are people that don’t like to brush their teeth or floss and then they just, you know, just get over it.  You know, this is how we’re made. It’s, 

Dr. Weitz:  but for those who aren’t following, where Dr. Gersh is going is she’s advocating for taking progesterone cyclically essentially for two weeks out of the month. Correct.

Dr. Gersh: Yeah, because that’s just how we’re made. I like, don’t blame me for how we evolved. You know? It’s just, you know, it’s like, like some people don’t like to sleep.  And then you’re gonna pay a price for it. Like, I like to go to bed. I’m not saying me, I’m saying some arbitrary person says, I like to stay up. I’m a night owl. You know, although humans are diurnal, we’re not nocturnal, but they think they are nocturnal. And I like to stay up till three o’clock in the morning and then I get up at six, but sometimes I take two hour naps in the afternoon.  It’s like, that is not beneficial in the long run. That is not optimal. But, you know, if that’s what you wanna do, that’s your choice. But I think people should have choices, but I think they should know what’s optimal. I mean, I’m sorry that we’re diurnal, we’re not nocturnal. And we’re supposed to have, we’re supposed to eat at certain times.

We’re supposed to sleep at certain [00:40:00] times. And for people who don’t like to exercise, it’s like I, like someone says. I don’t wanna sweat, so I don’t wanna exercise. It’s like, well, that’s your choice, but there’s a price to be paid for that. And it’s like, I don’t wanna bleed. It’s like, well, okay, but there is a price to be paid for that.  But pe the women are not getting informed. They’re not being told. But if you don’t bleed, it means you can’t have levels of hormones and rhythms of hormones that are what we’re designed to have to optimize everything. And now, and the rhythms affect gene expression, like tumor suppressor genes and so on.  It’s not little matter here

Dr. Weitz: now to go the next level up. If we really wanted to duplicate a woman’s natural hormones. They don’t have a consistent level of estrogen the whole time, and even for two weeks, they don’t have a consistent level of progesterone. It ramps up and it ramps down. And the same thing with the estrogen.  So ideally we should have a pattern of taking these hormones so they ramp up and slowly ramp down, shouldn’t we?

Dr. Gersh: Well, I have a few patients who are doing sort of that kind of a rhythm, but in reality we have to be also cognizant and, you know, like

Dr. Weitz: practical.

Dr. Gersh: We, if we make something so complex

Dr. Weitz: right,

Dr. Gersh: then we’re probably gonna have no one doing it.  And there was so, there, this is for my patients who are like more advanced I will do something that matches and this is not too complex. Say you’re using an estrogen patch, right? That’s a simple thing to use. Right. There was a study published where they used progesterone that as a 200 milligrams as an oral pill in this study, and they used a 0.1 milligram estrodiol patch, and what they did is the women had no estrogen.  They did what they call flow mediated [00:42:00] dilation. That’s what they use a lot in studies to look at if the artery is constricted or dilated. Right. And the answer is you want it to be dilated. Okay. You don’t want it to be constricted. Right. Okay. So without any estradiol, the artery was constricted. They added the one patch of 0.1 milligram, the artery dilated.  Then they gave 200 milligrams oral progesterone, and sad to say the artery constricted again. But most importantly, they actually measured the estradiol level in the serum. And it was like in the eighties. Okay, so 80 picograms per male. Many women never even get to that level. Okay. That’s the 0.1 patch, the highest dose patch.  And, but then when they added the oral progesterone, the artery constricted. Then another study, they did the same thing. No estrogen artery constricted. But this time they did two of the 0.1 milligram patches and they measured the level of estradiol, and it was in the one 20. [00:43:00] Okay. And then they added 300 milligrams of vaginal progesterone, and then the artery stayed dilated.  So that’s it. I mean, that’s the studies that I got. I don’t, I can’t say, well, let’s do another study. Well, I wanna do another study, but it hasn’t been done. But if you just look at that data, what does it tell you that when you have. 200, that’s what they use, 200 of oral progesterone combined with a level of estradiol that gets up into the eighties that the artery constricts.

But if you give, you know, a level up into the one twenties and you give the vaginal progesterone 300, the artery stays dilated. So for my patients who are open to this, I tell them to use the progesterone vaginally. I tell them we can do and we can give the estradiol any way they want. [00:44:00] Patches, gels, creams.  What I wanna know is what is the level in the blood, because that’s what I’m dealing with, you know? But if I do patches, then I’ll say, well, let’s try what they did in the study. We’ll do one patch when you’re not on the progesterone and two patches when you’re on the progesterone. That’s not hard for people to handle.

Okay. Then if they really wanna do that spike of estradiol, I’ll tell them for one day. For one day, maybe use two and a half or three patches for one day. You know, very few people wanna deal with that. But if they really say, some patients like, I wanna mimic the menstrual cycle more, then we’ll just try to get a level up into the three hundreds picograms per mil for like one day.

Okay. We can do that. It’s like one day in the mid cycle, like around day 12. Okay. Then for the progesterone. I will usually give 200 and rarely 300 vaginally for that, for those two [00:45:00] weeks. And we have a lot of data on vaginal progesterone because that’s what’s used all the time in infertility cases.

Like every IVF patient, all the infertility patients, we have a lot of data and we know levels and what is achieved with vaginal progesterone. And the pill that is used orally actually is approved. And that you, if you go to Mexico to buy your progesterone, or if you live in Mexico and you buy your progesterone on the box, the same micronized, progesterone on the box, it says oral or vaginal.

Okay? And there’s a lot of studies using these identical pills, using them intravaginally. And when you do it intravaginally, the levels that are achieved in the blood. Are physiologically aligned with luteal phase levels. When you take it orally, the levels that you get with like a hundred, if you actually measure progesterone in the blood, you get levels of like 1, 2, 3, that now those are really [00:46:00] low levels of progesterone.

You’re hardly getting any progesterone. That’s like the crazy thing. And progesterone is good, okay? But what you do get is a lot of metabolites of progesterone because when you take it orally, it goes through the stomach, the digestive tract, and ends up in the liver. And the liver is a metabolic powerhouse of transformation.

It converts things and it converts 80 to 90% of the progesterone that’s taken orally into other stuff called metabolites. The dominant one being allopregnanolone, which is good, but too much of a good thing is a bad thing. And then we actually have published studies showing that if you take a hundred milligrams.

You should be getting two and a half times the level of allopregnanolone that is max, you know, two and a half times the maximum level you’d ever have naturally in a luteal face. This, you know, when you’re making progesterone during a menstrual cycle, and so if you take 200, you’re getting [00:47:00] five times the upper limit of what you’d ever have naturally.

And allopregnanolone, which is an antidepressant anti-anxiety, it actually is neuroprotective and it activates the gabaa receptor. So GABA is the inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain that creates calmness and sedation welcomes you into sleep. Okay? But once again, too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

So there is published data showing that too much allopregnanolone, just the right amount is great. Too much can over activate GABA and create impairment to memory formation. And may we don’t have long-term data, may increase the long-term risk of dementia, which may be a contributing factor to these studies that say the longer you’re on hormones, the wrong type, you know, they’re not given the right way, the more you’re going to get dementia.

But, and [00:48:00] also there’s. I, we don’t have a ton. We have a lot of data on Allop Pregna, but not enough looking at it as a hormone replacement. ’cause you know, they’re looking at it in different ways. It’s actually as a synthetic version is used for postpartum depression. And by the way, in postpartum depression, the synthetic version of Allop, which it turns into allopregnanolone.  It’s a controlled substance. It’s a Schedule four controlled drug. It’s in the same category of drugs like Valium, Xanax, Ambien, and because it has all the same warnings, because those drugs, they don’t actually work in exactly the same mechanism, but they create the same effect. Activating GABA too much.  GABA can make you too sedated. That’s why they have warnings about don’t drive, and it could be addicting and this and that because they’re worried that it’s why did they make it a controlled substance, you know, the same like Ambien and so on, and Valium, because it has, there’s worrisome. [00:49:00] And then so we’re giving this to women and they don’t even know.  And a lot of women feel it though. They say when they take like, especially 200, but even 100, they feel, I feel drugged. Like, I’m so sleepy. Or like, I feel like I have a hangover the next minute.

Dr. Weitz: So I would challenge you there that a lot of the doctors I talk to who prescribe bioidentical hormones say that.  They don’t hear that from their women patients, that most of the women patients feel better, have better brain health, can sleep better. We have all this data that these metabolites of progesterone, like allopregnanolone, which are called neuro steroids, actually are beneficial for the brain. We even have studies showing that they can be used even in men after traumatic brain injury, that they reduce neuronal loss and enhance myelination and improved brain recovery.  So, I don’t think the experience of most women taking [00:50:00] progesterone matches what you’re saying.

Dr. Gersh: Well, I have given thousands of progesterone oral prescriptions out. So I know that there are many women who definitely feel the effects, but not all. Some of them, they love it. But here’s the thing. They also love their nightly Valium.  They also because they like sedated at night. But you know what? Sedate? We know that if you give Valium every night to a woman and this is being done, you know, Xanax every night, it’s being done that long-term. That does increase their risk of long-term dementias because it does affect the ability of the memory formation.  So here’s the thing a lot, by the way, the myelin, that seems to come from progesterone, no. Allopregnanolone is a natural metabolite of progesterone and the brain can make. From cholesterol can make progesterone, and it does. And then from progesterone the enzyme five alpha reductase is in the brain.  It will convert progesterone to allopregnanolone and progesterone is and should be used, I believe, for traumatic brain injuries for stroke because it, and, but a lot of the research shows that progesterone has its own receptors and progesterone itself. Is responsible for a lot of the positive brain effects.

And Allopregnanolone also has its own separate receptors, and it also is responsible for benefits. But so is progesterone. And progesterone is the dominant one for the myelin. Myelin, not the allopregnanolone. And so usually when people are treated for allop with allopurinol they’re getting progesterone.  Okay? So you don’t know how much exactly is progesterone in the brain versus allopregnanolone, but when they actually reg, look at the, what’s happening with the receptors, a lot of the benefits to the brain are from the progesterone receptor activation, not the allopregnanolone, but allopregnanolone is [00:52:00] beneficial.  And and absolutely I want people to have allopregnanolone, but I want them to have it in the natural way that they should get it. Not a giant bolus pouring out from the liver in you know what? Because you took it orally. When you take. Progesterone vaginally. You get systemic levels that are equal matched to what a woman would naturally have in her.

Her actual luteal phase. When you do oral progesterone 200, the levels of progesterone that are achieved in the blood will be like three or four. In a normal menstrual cycle, anything under 10 is considered. You didn’t even have a good ovulation. That’s like totally inadequate. And for fertility, you wanna be in the upper teens or even the low twenties of progesterone level.

So. Recognizing that progesterone has its receptors everywhere in the body, in it’s, it activates and is good for a skin and bone. [00:53:00] And the immune system, it’s very anti-inflammatory. It has a complete amazing interconnection with the endocannabinoid system along with estradiol and in the brain. It has its own receptors that are very good for neuroprotection and can downregulate as an anti-inflammatory agent.

When you have the activation of the microglia, if you have brain trauma and you get this over exaggerated inflammatory response, it helps to dampen it. That’s all from progesterone and then in the brain and in the liver and elsewhere, progesterone is naturally converted as needed to its metabolite, allopregnanolone to create the optimal effect.

But when you give progesterone orally, you’re not achieving any. Adequate amount of progesterone. You think you’re getting progesterone, you’re not. That’s why we get terrible bleeding irregularities if we start raising the dose of estradiol, because the amount of [00:54:00] progesterone isn’t up to the levels it should be to create what’s called complete secretory transformation of the endometrium.

When you give it vaginally, the data shows at 300 milligrams. Vaginally will pretty much a hundred percent give you complete secretory transformation, and it actually activates within the endometrium coming up from the vagina before it gets into the bloodstream. So you get both this amazing effect on the uterine lining.

That’s why it’s used in fertility cases all the time, because you make the uterine lining perfect, complete secretory transformation for implantation of an embryo. But if you’re not pregnant, you have the perfect uterine lining for elimination for the perfect period. That’s what I’m finding when you get women to use it vaginally and most of them are highly accepting of it, don’t, you know, it, they’re, the it factor is really not what people think.  They don’t have a problem, but they get, instead of [00:55:00] like multi-day of heavy bleeding or cramps, they get like three days of not heavy bleeding and it’s like over and because it’s proper secretory transformation. I think this is underlying a lot of women in the reproductive years not having normal periods because they don’t make enough progesterone and then they don’t have proper secretory transformation.  But I’m finding most women, although 300 is like a hundred percent, 200 is close. It’s close. And we don’t have at this time a 300 pill. 

Dr. Weitz:  So, so you’re using a 200 pill? 

Dr. Gersh: I am, but I’m seeing what happens and I’m measuring level. I measure, I was taught don’t measure progesterone levels. I never did before. I don’t.  And I’m thinking, why didn’t I do that? Now that I’m doing it, I’m shocked. Although I’m not surprised because this has already been studied and published. I’m just now finding out and re replicating what the studies already said, which is that when you take it orally, the levels you achieve in the blood are teensy and then you get all this massive [00:56:00] allopregnanolone.  But I’m not down downplaying the benefits of allopregnanolone. I’m just saying everything should be in the right amount at the right time. And when you take it orally, you get boluses that is not natural. And you’re getting at a minimum with a hundred, two and half percent, two and a half percent, two and a half times the amount you would ever have.  Naturally they, we have studies published showing that 40 milligrams. Of oral progesterone will give you the op maximum amount of allopregnanolone in the blood that you would get during a luteal phase. So what I’m doing, just so y’all and I made this up, I mean there’s no data to prove that anything I’m saying now, okay, not there is for all the other stuff I said that’s published.  But this what I’m gonna tell you for women who say when you take them off the oral progesterone. But I love it. I love it. I can’t sleep. Most of those women are not on optimal estradiol. ’cause that’s estradiols effect on sleep is not appreciated [00:57:00] when you give these tiny doses, because remember I mentioned a little bit ago, estradiol is critical.

For acetylcholine function and production, which activates the vagus nerve so you get more calm and sleep. But also serotonin neurons in the brain require estradiol, so you make more serotonin and you can’t make melatonin without first making serotonin and you have better gut microbiome. And that’s where a ton of melatonin is made.

And serotonin is made in the gut, right? So you’re going to have better microbiome. Production of these really essential, and of course, they work in synergy with our own entero enterocytes, our own cells that make these neurotransmitters. By the way, you get what? Better GLP one. That’s where it comes from.

Estradiol helps to maintain the GLP one, producing Entero. Enterocytes, so you don’t lose, get appetite dysregulation and start having insulin resistance and get obese. Okay? Because, you [00:58:00] know, getting those all problems of women going through menopause. So the bottom line is that when you take, this is what I made up 25 milligrams.  20 to 25. So that’s still below the maximum that you would ever have in a normal luteal phase. But often it’s just, and this is, I’m treating it, this is giving progesterone to give allopregnanolone. Okay? This is my way of giving Allopregnanolone at a sub. Maximum dose. So I’m giving a little bit just to help them while they’re getting adjusted.

Not decision shouldn’t be for life. Well, I’m getting their estradiol levels up. These are like usually new patients or transformative patients. You know, we’re changing their regimen and and that often is enough progesterone to help them to fall asleep and stay asleep. And then I do all the other sleep hygiene things like use a sleep mask that know if you don’t have a really pitch [00:59:00] black room, even a little bit of light filtering through the eyelids will suppress your melatonin production.

And I use very small doses of melatonin on a regular basis for those women, like half a milligram, that they take two hours. But I also know that they’re essentially like jet lag. So I’ll give them like nine or 10 milligrams of melatonin for three nights. That will actually click back the the master clock and help with the circadian rhythm readjustment.

So, but I’m just putting all this together. You know, I’m still new at what I’ve just told you because I was buying into the oral progesterone too. I mean, I still have a lot of patients on that, and as I see them, I’m introducing them to the concept. And I am so happy to say that the vast majority say, sure.

When you know, let me try it. You know, like what’s the harm in trying it? And I’m getting really good results. And here’s another little weird sounding thing. There’s actually published data that you can put it in the rectum. [01:00:00] Actually for women who say, well, I think there’s a little leakage. I don’t like it, blah, blah, blah.

You know, it’s like, well, you get really good serum. You don’t get that first pass with the uterus, but you get really good serum levels. If they just poke it up into the rectum and then they go to bed and then there’s no any leakage because it, the rectal sphincter, you know, keeps it there. So, and for women who have, they say, well, you know, it’s a little dry.

It’s not dissolving well. And I don’t have any data on this either, but I know other people have tried it, you know, just run it under a little bit of water before you put it in. So it just sort of loosens it. By the way, that happens when women use, like the vaginal inserts of estradiol, if their vaginal canal is kind of dry, those little tablets and inserts that they put in, you know, like, like vame and things like that, they they don’t dissolve, they don’t dis, it’s too dry in there.  So if you wet them first and then put it in, it works.

Dr. Weitz: I see.

Dr. Gersh: I don’t know, just sort of something that we try and then I test levels, so I’m always gonna know if we achieve good levels or not. I know that’s a lot, and that’s [01:01:00] not what most people are doing. I know I’m an outlier. I know I’m an outlier, but that’s okay.  It’s science, it’s ev, it’s science based, not. And in clinical studies with 10 people. Okay. Right.

Dr. Weitz: Hey, this has been a fascinating discussion. I do have to get on with patients, so let me now give people a little more information about you. Dr. Felice Gersh is a board certified obstetrician and gynecologist.  She’s fellowship trained in integrative medicine. She’s the director of the Integrative Medical Group of Irvine where she continues to see patients. She lectures around the world, writes on various topics relevant to women. She’s a bestselling author of three books, menopause, 50 Things You Need to Know.  P-C-O-S-S-O-S and P-C-O-S-S-O-S, fertility Fast Track, which you can order through her website. And what’s your website?

Dr. Gersh: It’s integrative mgi.com. 

Dr. Weitz: Okay. And your phone number for patients who wanna get ahold to make an appointment to see you?

Dr. Gersh: Oh, sure. Yep. It’s 949-753-7475.

Dr. Weitz: Thank you so much, Felice.

Dr. Gersh: Thank you. Thank you for letting me present my new ideas.

Dr. Weitz: It’s, this was fascinating. I think everybody who listens to this, who’s into this is going to be just the, it was like going to a Jeffrey Bland seminar where your neurons are all tingling. Thank you. 

Dr. Gersh:  Well go address your patients and I’ll do the same and have a wonderful day.

Dr. Weitz: You too. Bye.

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Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast. For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and give us a five star ratings and review. As you may know, I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine if you would like help.  Overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and want to prevent chronic problems and wanna promote longevity, please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.

Dr. Heather Stone discusses the Thyroid Transformation with Dr. Ben Weitz.

[If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so more people will find The Rational Wellness Podcast. Also check out the video version on my WeitzChiro YouTube page.]

 

Podcast Highlights

Understanding Thyroid Transformation with Dr. Heather Stone
In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, Dr. Ben Weitz hosts Dr. Heather Stone, a leading functional medicine practitioner, to discuss thyroid transformation. Dr. Stone shares her insights on the rise of autoimmune hypothyroidism, the role of toxins and stress, and the importance of a comprehensive approach to thyroid health. She outlines the seven pillars of her Thyroid Transformation Blueprint, emphasizing the need for extensive testing, customized care, and ongoing support. The discussion also covers dietary guidelines, the impact of GLP-1 agonist drugs, and the importance of balancing thyroid hormones without overmedication. Listeners are encouraged to join Dr. Stone’s Facebook group, ‘Happy, Healthy, and Lean,’ for more resources and support.
00:27 Meet Dr. Heather Stone: Thyroid Transformation Expert
01:34 Understanding Autoimmune Hypothyroidism
01:59 The Role of Toxins and Stress in Thyroid Health
04:28 Initial Patient Assessment and Comprehensive Testing
07:13 The Connection Between Autoimmunity and Thyroid Issues
10:45 Detailed Lab Testing for Thyroid and Blood Sugar
16:27 Managing Thyroid Hormone Treatments
20:52 The Impact of Environmental Factors on Thyroid Health
24:24 Functional Medicine vs. Traditional Approaches
26:47 The Potential Effects of GLP-1 Agonist Drugs on Thyroid
27:51 Side Effects and Concerns of New Medications
28:46 Impact of GLP-1 Medications on Insulin and Weight
30:39 Strategies for T4 to T3 Conversion
32:03 Nutrient Support for Thyroid Health
32:38 Managing Free Radicals and Insulin Resistance
35:23 Seven Pillars of Thyroid Transformation
41:51 Dietary Guidelines for Thyroid Health
50:07 Connecting with the Community and Final Thoughts
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Dr. Heather Stone is one of the top Functional Medicine practitioners in the world. She has over 20 years experience and she has helped thousands of women overcome the symptoms of hypothyroidism and Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. She published a book, Thyroid Transformation Blueprint, available through Amazon. Her website is ReverseMyCondition.com.

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz:  Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

Hello, rational Wellness podcasters today. Our topic is Thyroid Transformation with Dr. Heather Stone. Dr. Heather, 

Dr. Stone:  Thanks for having me. Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Weitz: Welcome. Thank you. Uh, let me give a little intro. Dr. Heather Stone is one of the top functional medicine practitioners.  She has over 20 years clinical experience in private practice, and during that time, she has successfully helped thousands of women overcome the symptoms of hypothyroidism and Hashimoto’s thyroiditis.  Her thyroid transformation blueprint has been used by hundreds of doctors. And does this help countless women return to healthy, happy, healthy and, has helped countless women return to happy, healthy, and lean.  Her mission is to change the face of healthcare through her private practice. Books, master classes, webinars, education programs, and retreats on a ranch in Texas. So welcome, Heather.

Dr. Stone: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Dr. Weitz: Great. So why is autoimmune hypothyroidism seemingly so common today?

Dr. Stone: Yeah, I don’t think that there’s any, you know, studies that are showing exactly why it’s so on the rise and so many women are struggling with it.  But what, from what I can see in my clinical practice and, and how I see this really growing is because we deal with, we are  dealing with such a ever-growing load of toxins.  I think if you really look at autoimmunity in general and this relates to all thyroid, what you have to really understand what are the underlying triggers and huge triggers are underlying, underlying infection.  So like bacteria, yiruses, mold, other toxins as well, like heavy metals and environmental toxins. And I think our bodies are like, are just way overloaded with what we are meant to handle.

Dr. Weitz: We’re certainly constantly hearing reports about toxins. We’ve just heard a number of reports about microplastics occurring in different parts of the body, including in the brain.  So we certainly live in a toxic world.

Dr. Stone: Yeah, exactly. And I think the other thing that’s a big contributing factor is not only the toxins, because those cause stress on the body, but also the stress that we live in in our environment, right? Like our bodies aren’t meant to necessarily be in fight or flight for long periods of time.  But I think in our world, that’s kind of how we set our world up.  So we are always in this state of sympathetic overdrive and the body. We are constantly pulling from our reserves but never really replenishing that. So if you think about it, the body’s always in a state of fight or flight or under a lot of stress.  Plus we have all this toxic load on top of all of that, creating even more stress. And it, it is just more than what the body is meant to and capable of handling on a long-term basis.

Dr. Weitz: Everybody’s bringing toxins onto our food. We create food as a bunch of toxins too with pesticides and glyphosate and et cetera, et cetera.

Dr. Stone: Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, it’s. You just have to have some kind of awareness of, you know, I think sometimes we get crazy and we say, oh my gosh, I gotta get all the toxins out. But it’s really about having an awareness of what you can do. ’cause we’re, we can’t eliminate all toxins, but you want to look at your food and, you know, eat as little toxic food as possible. 

Dr. Weitz:  Right.

Dr. Stone:  You can start with, you know, organic and thinking about how you know the protein that you’re eating, what it’s eating, and what it’s being fed and how it’s treated. But, big scheme of things, if you just started with getting out processed food, you would be making huge changes.

Dr. Weitz: Right? So when you first see a patient who presents with hypothyroid, what are some of the more important questions that you like to ask to figure out what might be going on underlying.

Dr. Stone: Yeah. So for me, I, when I first see a patient, I really like to understand, what it is that they’ve been through, what are the things that they’re currently struggling with, so what are their current symptoms, and what are the things that have tried in the past that might have worked that may be not working now, or, and what are the things that they’ve tried that completely didn’t work so that I can assess kind of the landscape?  Like where, where has this patient been? Where are they currently sitting? And then that gives me an idea to understand what has been missed, what do we need to do to move forward? And I think after you really understand who the patient is in front of you, I think getting comprehensive testing is probably one of the most important things because when you’re dealing with someone who has low thyroid.  Most of the time they’re dealing with symptoms of fatigue. They can’t lose weight. They have, they can’t sleep very well. They’ve got anxiety and depression, they’ve got brain fog. And those symptoms are very commonly kind of pigeonholed into low thyroid.  And once you get the diagnosis of low thyroid, it’s like that’s all they would associate those symptoms with is low thyroid.  And so then, you know, patients get prescribed, okay, here’s your thyroid medication. Go home and take this medication, everything’s goning to be fine. And they go home and they take their medication and they may feel good temporarily, but usually all of those symptoms come back. And so then they go back and medications get adjusted and they take their, and it, so they just constantly are on this roller coaster.

But it’s really important to understand that when you’re dealing with low thyroid. The body doesn’t work in systems, right? It doesn’t, the thyroid doesn’t work alone. The thyroid and all other systems in the body communicate together, and they work together. And so I think one of the biggest, downfalls is that when someone gets diagnosed with low thyroid, that’s all they look at.  But in reality, every single one of those symptoms could also be attributed to, dysglycemia, which means their blood sugar is out of balance. It could be an adrenal issue. It could be autoimmunity, it could be gut, it can be a high toxic load. And so really understanding and getting down to the root cause of where these symptoms are coming from is the the biggest difference that we see in patient’s care and outcomes.

Dr. Weitz: We pretty much know that 95%, there’s going to be some autoimmune component.

Dr. Stone: Yeah, so most of the time, 90 to 98%, so you just kind of divide it in the middle. 95% of us who have low thyroid actually have an underlying autoimmune condition, and in traditional medicine there is no difference between Hashimoto’s and low thyroid in respect to the care or the treatment.  It’s low thyroid hormones. But if you, if you really understand autoimmunity. The biggest, you don’t have a primary thyroid issue. You have an immune issue, and so you have to understand that the goal is now to stabilize the immune system. This is really important because once you have one autoimmune disease, you’re at risk for developing multiple autoimmune diseases, and when you have Hashimoto’s, you’re at risk for developing thyroid cancer.  And so if we just took the only focus off of thyroid hormones and we said, okay, we’ve got an immune issue. Now what do we need to do to stabilize the immune system? So now you’ve gotta take a step back and say, okay, what are the triggers that this, specific individual patient is dealing with? You know, is it a blood sugar issue?  Is it an adrenal issue?  Is it hormonal? Like are they having estrogen and testosterone surges? Is it an underlying infection, underlying toxins, food sensitivities? So you’re looking at all of those things in a person to understand. How do we get their immune system stable? And that that is why so many women are still struggling with low thyroid symptoms is because they’re just focusing on thyroid hormones, but not taking a deeper look and understanding how the body is, where are the triggers that are truly impacting the immune system?

Dr. Weitz: So we have these underlying immune triggers, which means that the immune system is, for example, attacking a toxin and then creates antibodies, and then those antibodies cross-react and attack the thyroid, and therefore lead to destruction of the thyroid.

Dr. Stone: Yeah, so essentially the immune system is actually making antibodies to the thyroid, right?  That’s how we diagnose Hashimoto’s, is that they’re making antibodies either to the TPO antibodies, which is thyroid peroxidase, or to the thyroid globulin. So that is a component of the thyroid. But it’s really important to what you said. There’s a thing in the body called molecular mimicry. So for example, like if people with Hashimoto’s eat gluten.  The gluten molecule looks very similar to thyroid tissue and to the cerebellum. And so the immune system will get, you know, it’ll, it will start making antibodies not only to the gluten, but to thyroid and cerebellum. And so, you know, you can have all kinds of different pathogens that might do that with molecular mimicry and toxins, and even food sensitivities.  So it’s very important to understand, you know, what are those triggers and, and what do you need to do to create stability.

Dr. Weitz: So let’s get into testing. After you consult with your patient, initially, you’re going to figure out what kinds of detailed labs you want to do. So what is some of your favorite panels that you like to run, depending upon each person’s history?

Dr. Stone: Yeah. So first of all, on every patient, we run very extensive blood work. So, of course we’re going to look at the classic things that most people get, like, a CBC and a Chem panel, except we’re going to do more of an expanded chem panel or metabolic panel essentially, so that we can fully look at liver function, kidney function, those types of things.  Then you want to do a thorough evaluation of your blood sugar. And so when you, I have created a Dysglycemia panel that has 12 different markers where we can truly evaluate your blood sugar. One of the things that’s important for people to know who are dealing with a weight issue is that every time you have a weight issue, you’re, you’re always going to have a blood sugar issue somewhere.  It doesn’t mean you’ve got pre-diabetes or diabetes, but it means that you might have some insulin resistance, you might have some blood sugar variability, which means your blood sugar goes up and down all throughout the day. You may have hypoglycemia. So it’s very important to understand anytime there’s a weight issue, there’s going to be a blood sugar issue, and that blood sugar issue also contributes to the autoimmunity.  So we do a very thorough evaluation of blood sugar. 

Dr. Weitz: What, what labs, what lab companies do you like to use?

Dr. Stone: Yeah, so typically for blood work, we’re using LabCorp. And then the other companies that we like to use, I do Dutch testing, we use salivary hormone panels from diagnostics. We use stool testing from Genova.  We use the total tox test from Vibrant America. So we use a lot of the, you know, a lot of the lab companies that most functional medicine practitioners use.

Dr. Weitz: Right, okay.

Dr. Stone: And I think it’s important to understand that when you’re truly evaluating the thyroid, there’s actually 12 different markers that make up a thyroid panel.  And most women who have been diagnosed with low thyroid, they’re just consistently measuring TSH and TSH is just a very small piece of the puzzle. And so to really look and understand how thyroid is, is functioning, it is really important.

Dr. Weitz: Do you run any of the detailed, tests on, food sensitivities like Cyrex or, the gut, the wheat zoomer from vibrant?

Dr. Stone: Yeah, so we do on some patients run a lot of the Cyrex testing. Okay. We’ll say that most people who are dealing with autoimmunity and most people in, in general, we take all patients off of gluten, dairy, soy, and corn. And the reason we don’t really test that is because the research shows that 100% of women with low thyroid or Hashimoto’s have a gluten sensitivity regardless of what any test is saying.  Because of that molecular mimicry issue that we were talking about earlier. But so we take most people off of all of those. We take them off of grains. Then we work on all the other things to try to get their immune system more stable. Now, if a patient is still really struggling, like they’ve got gas and bloating and we can’t really find an underlying infection, then we will do more of that Cyrex testing, the Cyrex food sensitivity testing so that we can fine tune what it is that we’re dealing with.  Now, I’ll tell you. Several decades ago, we used to do that Cyrex food sensitivity test on every patient in the beginning. And um, what we realized is that some of them would come back with like, they could barely eat anything. And I called Cyrex and I’m like, okay, what is going on? Why are so many of these people allergic or sensitive to everything?  And they said, oh, it’s probably because they have an underlying infection. And I’m like. Oh, okay. So now I take them off of the main allergens that most people have and the things that also raise their blood sugar. All those things raise blood sugar. And then if, and we handle any underlying pathogens, then if [00:15:00] necessary we do the Cyrex test.  And I have not had another one come back where it was like all lit up or they couldn’t eat anything. And so I just changed the approach a bit and it’s been, um, you know, it’s been a big game changer.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. And before you have your patients get their thyroid tests, do you have them restrict biotin supplements?

Dr. Stone: Yeah, I think, the biotin supplement can impact TSH on a test, and so we have them restrict biotin, for a few days before they get their labs done.

Dr. Weitz: Right.

Dr. Stone: And it’s important to understand the biotin doesn’t necessarily impact TSH. It impacts how the lab reads the TSH, so it, it doesn’t necessarily like it, it’s not a true representation of what the TSH is doing.  When you, when you have your labs checked while on biotin, it just messes up with the reagents that they’re using to test it.

Dr. Weitz: Really? What I, I’m confused. What does that mean?

Dr. Stone: So like, you know, whenever they are testing your blood and they use different reagents to pull out these numbers, right? The biotin messes with one of those agents, so, oh, okay.  If you, if you are taking biotin, it’s not necessarily directly impacting your TSH level, but when you get your labs done, it impacts the results.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. Okay. So when it comes to treatments. Do you prefer Synthroid or Armor or do you what? What’s your position on that? Or do you just leave that up to the MDs?

Dr. Stone: Yeah, I think it’s important to understand for, first of all, I leave that up to the MDs and my nurse practitioners to prescribe because I don’t prescribe. However, I think it’s important to understand, some women get really frustrated because… 

Dr. Weitz:  You have nurse practitioners that work in your office who prescribe? Okay.

Dr. Stone: Yes, I do. So, essentially a lot of times women get put on these thyroid hormones and they have an unrealistic expectation of what’s supposed to happen with those thyroid hormones. They’re told that everything’s gonna be great, and so they take these medications and usually everything isn’t great.  They might feel, you know, a little bit better, but they think that the medication isn’t working. So it’s important to understand that. The purpose of the medication is to get the thyroid hormones balanced in the body or to up to a normal level. That is the purpose. Now, once those hormones are level and you still have symptoms, it means that you just haven’t fixed the underlying root cause of where those symptoms are coming from.  Now it’s important to understand that if you do have low thyroid hormones, it can be a trigger for the immune system. So making sure that your thyroid hormones are normal is very, very important. So, if somebody has to take those [00:18:00] medications to get their thyroid hormones level, then it’s imperative that they do.

So now for me, looking at these labs and, and looking at thousands and working with thousands of patients, I don’t necessarily see one particular medication working better than another. Now, some people will have sensitivities to Levothyroxine and Synthroid, so they need to go on tyrosine, which doesn’t have any fillers or anything like that.  I see, many women who have an under conversion problem, so they don’t convert T4 to T3. Now, there’s many ways that we can fix that from a functional perspective, but just from a medication perspective, they load them up on T4, but the active form of thyroid hormone, which is T3, is still really low and they still feel crummy.  So in that scenario, maybe an armor thyroid might be better. I see. Other women who are taking armor, thyroid, or maybe even only a T3, and now their T4 is super, super low and their TSH is high. So with all that being said, it doesn’t necessarily matter which hormones they’re taking. It just, we just need to make sure that the thyroid hormones are adequate and at a, a good level so that we can maintain, we can make sure that that’s not a trigger to the immune system, but it is important. And I know that so many women are frustrated with their thyroid hormones, and I think it’s because they just have an unrealistic expectation of the purpose of the thyroid hormone. And all it is, is to get your thyroid hormones up to an acceptable level.  And now we gotta fix all the underlying issues if the symptoms still persist.

Dr. Weitz: That may be why I see some patients who come in the office and they have a TSH of like 0.1 that their prac, there’s certain practitioners that just seem to really push the level of the thyroid supplement.

Dr. Stone: It is like it is, I think it’s the number one over-prescribed medication [00:20:00] and meaning like doctors will tend to over-prescribe it because the patient is still having symptoms of low thyroid.  So instead of going off of the lab ranges, they will just continue to push thyroid hormones, hoping that the symptoms go away. There’s many issues with that, right? You further suppress your own thyroid production of thyroid hormone, so essentially you’re shutting down the thyroid. Secondly, you start to create thyroid resistance.  Just like people have insulin resistance, the more hormone that your cells are exposed. Two, if they’re overexposed to the hormone, you actually decrease the amount of receptor sites on the cell, so you can’t get as much thyroid hormone in the cell. So we definitely don’t want to overmedicate patients, um, with thyroid hormones.  We just want to make sure the thyroid hormones are at an adequate, acceptable level.

Dr. Weitz: Do you ever look at halides like fluoride, chlorine, bromine that can interfere with iodine? 

Dr. Stone: Absolutely. So these compete with iodine for the thyroid. And so, you know, we are always talking about making sure that you absolutely do not drink tap water.  You really work to filter the water that you’re drinking and using. But the other thing that’s important is the water that you’re showering with and maybe even sitting in a bathtub because now you add heat to that and it just creates a bigger issue. So we have to understand that. Fluoride and chlorine and all of those halogen, they have the same chemical structure as iodine and they will bind to the thyroid and you won’t have enough iodine for the thyroid to function.  So, you know, for us, instead of overdoing it with iodine, because that can have negative implications with Hashimoto’s, you wanna just make sure you’re cleaning up your water sources.

Dr. Weitz: Have you ever tried the high dose iodine that there’s certain practitioners recommend like 12 or 25 milligrams?

Dr. Stone: No, because the research that I’ve seen [00:22:00] and the mentors that I’ve learned from it really shows that iodine supplementation over 125 micrograms actually increases the immune attack on the thyroid.  So for me, I just don’t go down that route.

Dr. Weitz: I, I tried it for myself ’cause I have Hashimoto’s and my TSH went from nine to 25. 

Dr. Stone: So yeah, 

Dr. Weitz: that obviously wasn’t the right strategy for me, but I figured I’d give it a shot.

Dr. Stone: Well, yeah, so yeah, for me, that’s not something that we put into clinical practice and I, I think that, you know, I have Hashimoto’s as well, and so I always try everything on myself first before I put it into clinical practice.

Can I do it? Was it effective? And, you know, and then looking at the research.

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Dr. Weitz:  What are some things that doctors get wrong when they’re managing women with thyroid?

Dr. Stone: Yeah. I think for the most part what they really get wrong is thinking that the, that most women who have a thyroid issue actually have a primary thyroid issue.

Um, they don’t look at a bigger picture and say, oh, they. Likely have an autoimmune condition. And so because they just focus on these numbers, they’re just focusing on the TSH, most of them, um, they’re literally just chasing that number up and down, up and down, and they never get to stabilize the immune system and [00:25:00] actually help the patient feel better.  And not only just help the patient feel better, but prevent other autoimmune diseases, um, in the future.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. Unfortunately, conventional medical doctors have no way to address the autoimmune component unless they’re gonna put patients on immunosuppressive drugs.

Dr. Stone: Right. And then the immunosuppressant drugs, the side effects of those are worse than what the patient’s dealing with right now.

Right? So that’s why it’s not like that, that that is why we are in this position. Like the doctors look in their, the traditional doctors look in their toolbox, and it’s like the only thing that I have in here. Thyroid medication, that is the standard of care. That is what is expected and taught. And so that’s why so many of us with Hashimoto’s are kind of falling through the crack in that system.

But if you, um, really look to say, okay, how do we restore body function? That’s what leads most people to functional medicine because there’s a different approach, a wider like. Like, I, I [00:26:00] say wider scope, but a, a, a wider focus, meaning like we’re not so myopic on the thyroid, but really looking at immune function and balance.

So essentially with pharmaceuticals, and of course there’s a time and place, but it’s usually to override the body’s physiology, right? And if you’re gonna override the body’s physiology with an autoimmune disease, the, the most logical thing to do would be to shut down the immune system. So that’s kind of the approach with all autoimmune diseases in traditional medicine, and it’s just a completely different approach to say, okay, instead of just shutting down the immune system and overriding the body’s physiology, let’s figure out what we need to do to create balance in the body again and create function.

Dr. Weitz: Now that millions of Americans are taking, GLP-1 agonist drugs to lose weight, I’m wondering are you seeing an effect on the thyroid? 

Dr. Stone: I think it’s too early to tell, to be honest with you. But I know that the research coming back right now, I mean, I think in the last week I’ve seen a hun like. An in a significant increase, and I don’t remember the exact percentage, but a significant increase in 100, percent of all thyroid cancer.  And so, you know, it’s, for me, I think the, the verdict is still out and it’s always, every time you take a medication to override the body’s physiology, there is gonna be side effects. There are, and you have to weigh, you know, what are the possible side effects and consequences versus the benefits. And I think unfortunately, most people don’t do enough research.

Their doctors don’t give them the information about what the possible side effects are, and they’re only looking at the benefits. And so, you know, we’re coming out with. You know, all kinds of, uh, side effects and, and issues with these things, [00:28:00] but that is to be expected.  This is a new medication and it’s really only sold in America for weight loss.  And so, you know, I think the, the verdict is still out, but there will always be side effects.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. And there’s just gonna be a huge number of people in the future who are gonna be on these drugs.

Dr. Stone: Yeah. Like

Dr. Weitz: everybody I talk to,

Dr. Stone: it’s frightening. And I think the, the most frightening thing to me is that we’re gonna start putting our children on these medications instead of.

Really look at how do we optimize their diet, their nutrition, their exercise and activity, right? Uh, instead of teaching them how they can, uh, preserve and improve health as they age, we are just pushing them down this, this path, which is pretty scary. And I will say almost all people that I’ve seen on GLP ones, um, their insulin is high, their insulin is sky high, and so.

This is a diabetic medication and it [00:29:00] increases the secretion of insulin from the pancreas. And when our cells are exposed to more insulin, with a more insulin resistant, we become, which is why you have to continue to increase dosage. This is like every other diabetic medication. Eventually it’s gonna stop, and the end of the road is you’re just gonna have to take insulin.

And so I think it’s really important to understand that because most people that are on this, they don’t understand. This is a diabetic medication. I’ve had patients say like, oh my God, I would never take Metformin, but they’re on Ozempic. I’m like, do you, do you realize that you’re on a diabetic medication that’s literally increasing your insulin?

And insulin is the hormone that stores fat. Right. And so the only reasons that they’re losing weight is because they are significantly decreasing their caloric intake, right? Essentially the drug is, um, a allowing them to starve themselves and so they’re gonna get an initial weight loss, but they’re, most people are [00:30:00] not learning how to eat.

They’re not ma doing what they need to to maintain muscle mass. They are. Increasing insulin resistance. So they’re gonna have to keep increasing it. And then when they get off of it, all the weight’s coming back because now they’re more insulin resistant than before. And so I think that, you know, for me, some people may benefit from the short term, like to help them with this weight loss process.

But I think in the long term, if they don’t really understand why they’re gaining weight in the first place and they’re not, uh, getting down to the underlying root cause, it’s, it’s not, it’s going to be a short term fix, just like everything else. Expensive, short term fix.

Dr. Weitz: Now you mentioned T4 to T3 conversion issues.  So if everybody’s not familiar, your body makes T four or you take a T4 supplement like Synthroid, and then the T4 has to get converted into the active form T3, and not everybody converts T4 to T3 so well. So what are some of the strategies you use to promote that?

Dr. Stone: Yeah, we look at it from two different perspectives.

So first of all, the body converts T four to T three 70% of the time in the liver, okay? And honestly, most people who have Hashimoto’s and thyroid issues, they, they need support. They need to support their detoxification pathways, which is mostly in the liver, right? So most of us need liver support. Now, another 20% of the time that gets converted in the gut.

Most of us need to support and improve our gut health, and then 10% of the time it happens other places in the body. So you have to think about, okay, where this gets converted, is it functioning? Secondly, you also need like selenium and other enzymes and nutrients to help convert T4 to T3. So are your minerals and nutrients and all the IV vitamins that you need are, are any of those deficient?  Are [00:32:00] they at good levels? Now, the third thing, 

Dr. Weitz: So what are the key nutrients that you tend to find? You mentioned selenium. Do you find zinc? Do you, what other nutrients do you find are really helpful or tend to be helpful?

Dr. Stone: Yeah. Like zinc for sure, selenium. Um, and, and a lot of antioxidants. Most women who have issues with their thyroid, we mostly need methylated B vitamins.  So many of us are deficient in those B vitamins. So the, those are the really the big ones. Um, zinc, selenium, and one of the supplements that I use to help for conversion also has a little bit of copper in there as well.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Stone: Alright. Now the other thing, which is really big. Is that a lot of times we will have an overload of free radicals and toxins in the body and that in and of itself, so what happens is when you eat sugar, well, anything right that turns into glucose, your, your cells take that glucose into the cell.

[00:33:00] By insulin and your mitochondria, little powerhouses inside the cell, they make energy or what we call a TP. Now, when you make energy or a TP, a free radical also comes off of that, and you can think of a free radical as garbage or a waste product. It speeds up the aging process, and so the body has to be able to clear out those free radicals Now.

If your free radicals are building up in the body because you can’t clear ’em out as fast as you’re making energy, the body’s like, whoa. I am in a place where I, I can’t keep making this much energy because all these free radicals are creating too much inflammation and it can actually kill the cell. So.

What happens is a cell becomes insulin resistant, so it stops taking in so much glucose, then it signals over to the thyroid and says, Hey, I need you to slow down the metabolic rate because I can’t keep up with the production of a TP and energy at this rate. And so then the way that the body, uh, helps to regulate the metabolic [00:34:00] rate is it slows down that conversion of T four to T three.

So we could. Theoretically just put in T three and override the body’s physiology. Or we could say, all right. Let’s make sure you have enough antioxidants. Do you have enough glutathione, vitamin C, resveratrol? Let’s make sure that we look at your toxic load. Are you loaded with mold, heavy metals, um, environmental toxins like you mentioned before, glyphosate and all those organ phosphates.

Um, and so start clearing out these toxins. Support all of the detoxification pathways. And then s guess what, you become more, uh, your, your blood sugar gets more regulated. You start to reverse insulin resistance. Your conversion of T four to T three starts to improve. So you gotta really look at this as a, a big picture.

And the most amazing thing is the body is so. Cool because it’s always protecting you. And you would think, how could it be protecting me if I’m insulin resistant and I can’t make these things, but [00:35:00] it’s doing the most survival thing that it can at the time. And so, uh, down regulating your metabolic rate is what it needs to do right now for survival in its current condition.  And so continuing to work and figure out where that underlying root cause is, kind of allows the dominoes to start falling and that your health to really turn around.

Dr. Weitz: Um, have we gone through most of your seven pillars of thyroid transformation?

Dr. Stone: Yeah, but I can go through those in order so that it’s easy to understand.  Okay. So there, uh, there is a blueprint that I,

Dr. Weitz: that way it’ll help us put a little structure to this talk. 

Dr. Stone: Yes, that’s right. So I created a blueprint that I use on every patient every time, and it has, it has allowed me to focus, care and be the most efficient and get the best possible results in the shortest amount of time.

So, the first pillar is that you have to have a, um, a constant pursuit of your goals. So, first of all, [00:36:00] we gotta know what it is we’re trying to achieve. What’s important to you? Like, do you wanna have more energy? You know, do you wanna lose weight? Do you wanna sleep better? Like, what are your goals? And then tied to those goals, you have to have a deep meaning, meaningful motivation.

And this is where most people, they fail because they’ll, they’ll create new year’s res resolutions. Like, I wanna lose weight. But literally everybody has forgotten about. Their New Year’s resolution at six weeks. The gyms are empty in the middle of February, and so the, the, the goal of losing weight is not good enough because we talk ourselves out of it.

We say, we’ll start tomorrow, and, oh, this isn’t gonna be that big of a deal. You know, a little bit of this isn’t such a big deal. If you tie it to a motivation, like I don’t want more autoimmune diseases, like, um, I wanna be around for my children and my grandchildren, and I wanna be active and I wanna have a good quality of life and I wanna prevent diabetes.

That takes on a different meaning and a motivation. So it’s much easier to stick with [00:37:00] the regimen, uh, to achieve the goal. So that’s pillar number one. Pillar number two we touched on is to do comprehensive testing. You have to do comprehensive testing, otherwise you’re just guessing at a solution. And I, I will, uh, I wanna iterate that these have to be followed in order, because a lot of times we go from problem to solution without figuring out why we have the problem, and then, then we, the solution may or may not work.

So the third pillar is that you have to have comprehensive diagnosis and analysis. This is important because a lot of people will hear me talk and they’re like, okay, well what are the 12 markers for thyroid? So they go ask their doctor to run these, these markers, and the answer that they usually get is, well, we’re not gonna run those markers because I.

I don’t know how to analyze them. I don’t even know what half of them mean, or they’re gonna say, we could run all of those markers, but it’s not gonna change treatment, so we’re not gonna order those. And so what I really want, a lot of times the

Dr. Weitz: insurance doesn’t wanna cover [00:38:00] those markers still. 

Dr. Stone: That’s exactly right.  Yeah. And then the doctors get flacked for ordering those markers in the first place. Exactly. So, um, you have to understand and you have to, uh, and analyze these from a functional perspective. So not just going down the lab work and picking out the things that are outside of the lab ranges, but you have to understand patterns, how these things are working, evaluate them from a functional level and not just a disease state.

Because in functional medicine there’s actually optimal. Where, uh, a human being should be functioning optimally. We have to realize that these lab ranges are just to determine disease. And so we don’t have, we’re, we’re not necessarily looking for the disease, although we’ll find it, but we’re looking for the dysfunction.

We’re looking for the underlying imbalance. Then that brings us to pillar number four, which is customized care. So earlier I talked about a load of different triggers. Well, how do you know which trigger to treat? Well, you gotta do the testing and the analysis. Then you can kind of figure out, okay, what [00:39:00] are the highest priorities?

And now we’re gonna customize care based on the highest priorities that we see with your labs. And then the fifth pillar is that you need a coach. Um, because this is the body’s complicated. That is why we still research, right? That is, that is why doctors still practice because we don’t know everything about the human body.

Um, and it’s hard to do this on your own. And I think having someone guide you through the ups and the downs is very important because so many people think that health just goes up on an upward trajectory. Like if you implement something, then, then everything is supposed to just start working, right? But the body deals with so many different variables.

You’re gonna have ups and downs and so, so many people quit on the downs right before they were about to experience the peak. And so you have to have someone that knows how to get you through that. And the other part of having a coach is also being coachable. A lot of US thyroid patients, [00:40:00] we have to, had to have been our own doctor for so long because you know, we aren’t getting answers and it’s.

Very difficult to sometimes get doctors to listen, but when you find somebody who has the experience and um, knows what to do, you have to be able to trust that they are gonna help you find the solutions and, um, not just jump from one thing to the other, whatever fad is on Instagram. At the moment, right?

And then, um, pillar number six is continued testing. So I do find this as an issue. A lot of doctors, they will do initial testing, but they don’t do follow-up testing near enough to know, are you on the right track? Do we need to, um, reevaluate and readjust what your priorities are since your body has healed?  And then after you test again, you’ve gotta re customized care. And that’s pillar number seven.

Dr. Weitz: That’s the tricky part. Getting the patients sometimes to come back for the retesting. You have your great patients that will do whatever you want, and you have [00:41:00] the other patients who are like, okay, I got it.

See you.

Dr. Stone: Yeah, I mean, so, you know, for me, uh, I, um, really work with patients in a treatment plan and I try to say, okay, you gotta, you gotta stick with me for anywhere from five to nine months and we gotta work on this together as a team because it isn’t fun as a clinician, like you’re saying, for patients to do it for a month or two months and then.

They’re out. Like, and then, you know, really know did they get better? You know, they need to come back for testing. There’s, there’s things that have to be managed throughout this process. And so for me, I just am very particular about the patients that we accept into care because, uh, we have to see them through the whole thing.  Otherwise, it’s like, I don’t know, you just feel like you’re not making a big enough difference.

Dr. Weitz: Right. We didn’t cover diet, but you did mention a number of dietary parameters. You mentioned gluten-free, dairy free, uh, [00:42:00] soy-free, corn free, and no grains. So it’s kind of a, a sort of a paleo template. Is that right?

Dr. Stone: Yeah, that’s kind of the general guidelines that I use is more paleo, so protein, vegetables, a little bit of fruit and good healthy fats. That’s kind of like in general now. With that being said, depending on where someone is, we may move into more keto. We may do super low carb, like five to 10 grams of carbs a day, kind of more towards carnivore.

Um, we look at all d kinds of different things like. Are they having issues with nightshades or lectins and oxalates? So you can fine tune and customize, but if you’re just like, if, if most people would just do the basics with unprocessed foods and eat clean animal protein, um, vegetables, mostly focusing on the green vegetables versus the really starchy vegetables.

Have a little bit of fruit and good healthy fats, you’re gonna make a huge [00:43:00] difference in your health. Now I do a masterclass and I give, uh, people, not even patients, this information, and the women who implement this. They are literally dropping 10, 15, 20, 30 pounds before I ever even see them. And it’s just because they had the courage to implement from the recommendations after you know that.

And so it’s really important that if people are hearing this, just start with something. Just start with one thing and you’ll make, um, huge changes. Sometimes it seems overwhelming and because it seems overwhelming, they do nothing. But if you just started with one thing, then the next day you do better, you do 2% better the next day and 2% better the next day before you know it.

Um, you know, you’ve implemented so many things and your health is in a different place. I always talk about health stacking, right? Health or habit stacking. Um, you know, I’ve been doing this for like 25 years, and so my health [00:44:00] routine would be completely overwhelming to me 25 years ago. But because I’ve kind of implemented and added all along the way, now these things are not a challenge to me whatsoever.

And it’s like my whole day is set up to improve and support my health. But when you’re just getting started, you can hear all these things like sauna and cold plunge and carnivore and keto and like all the things and. You start doing one thing and then you turn around and that’s the wrong thing to do, and so then people give up and they get frustrated.  But literally, if they would just start with one thing at a time and continue to stack those habits, before you know it, they’re, they have a completely different life.

Dr. Weitz: And these foods that you take out, like gluten and dairy, they’re out permanently or do you ever try to bring them back over time?

Dr. Stone: For gluten, it’s out permanently.  And it is important to understand that when you have Hashimoto’s, every time you eat gluten, it causes the immune system to attack your thyroid. [00:45:00] So you have to be gluten-free and a lot of times it’s kind of like being pregnant. You kind of, you can’t kind of be. Pregnant, just like you can’t kind of be gluten-free because these antibodies stay circulating in the system for up to 90 days.

And so a little bit here, a little bit there. The antibodies never go out of the body, and so you can’t ever actually feel what it feels like to be gluten-free. Now, we were talking about a lab called Cyrex, and Cyrex has a. Cross reactivity panel, which I find very helpful. So dairy is very inflammatory for the body, first of all.

Secondly, it can be a cross reactor to gluten, meaning many of us when we eat dairy, the body acts just like you just ate gluten. So you have the exact same, uh, response and that goes with a lot of the gluten-free grains. That’s why I just take all grains out because not only can it be a cross reactor to gluten, it raises your blood sugar.  And so, um, gluten is really out for good.

Dr. Weitz: Um, legumes also.

Dr. Stone: Well, legumes, you have to think about. I, I, I wouldn’t say that it’s a hard and fast rule like gluten because the body doesn’t really have the same, uh, autoimmune reaction. But what you have to think about with legumes is they tend to be high in lectins.  Right? That’s the poison around the, the plant or around the, the bean. 

Dr. Weitz: So that which Dr. Gundry made famous…

Dr. Stone: Yes, he did make that famous. But the biggest thing, and I have always been a, a proponent of, you could have some legumes, but it should be very sparingly because of the carbohydrate protein ratio.  Every time you eat legumes, you’re gonna see that your blood sugar’s gonna go up. And so you’ve got to regulate your blood sugar in order to stabilize your immune system. So for me, when people are asking me dietary questions, the first thing I think about is how does it impact your blood sugar? Because controlling insulin is the number one key, you know?  Insulin resistance is at the heart of every single chronic degenerative disease. It is why people are overweight. And if we don’t have that understanding about how it, the, the food impacts your insulin levels, um, then it, it becomes a, a big, you’re like, well, why do I have to limit this too, and why I have to limit this too?

And it just seems to be like overwhelming. But like for me, I am here, teaching a seminar in Mexico and we’re at an all-inclusive resort, and yesterday they served us some chips with a little bit of black beans with some chorizo, and so I took a bite or two of the bean and chorizo dip. I didn’t eat the chips, so I’m not gonna sweat it.

My blood sugar probably went up a little bit, but like. I, I follow my rules 90% of the time, and so if I eat a little bit of legumes, it’s not gonna throw me over. But if you do it every day, that’s why a lot of times vegetarians and vegans have completely, you know, wrecked their blood sugar is because [00:48:00] they use these high carbohydrate, um, uh, vegetable sources or vegetarian sources as their protein.  And so you can’t get around that whole blood sugar issue doing that.

Dr. Weitz: Well, you know, to, to play devil’s advocate, there are those vegans who argue that by following a low fat, vegan, high carb diet, you actually can regulate your, your blood sugar and your insulin and everything else. And so there are some people out there, we’ve had ’em on the podcast.

Dr. Stone: They do say that. They do say that. And I would wonder, um, you know, is that, is that sustainable long term? And have they truly worn a continuous glucose monitor and what are they looking for? 

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, there’s two guys that actually are type one diabetics and they claim that eating a high carb, low fat diet is the best way to regulate their blood sugar.

Dr. Stone: Well, I, I don’t know. I’ve never seen a person be [00:49:00] able to eat high carbs and regulate their blood sugar. So the question is, are they looking at glyco mark? Are they looking at their. Insulin Are they? I’m sure they’re looking at insulin ’cause they’re type one diabetics. Oh sure. And of course they’re probably looking at their A1C, but are they looking at the variability when they eat those?  Are they seeing a spike in their blood sugar? Because out of the thousands of people I’ve seen, I’ve never seen somebody eat high carbohydrate and have normal or even stay. Stable blood sugar.

Dr. Weitz: Right. I, I share your skepticism, but there, there is that concept out there.

Dr. Stone: Yeah, there is. And you know, blood sugar also depends not only on what you eat, it depends on muscle mass and activity level.  Right? So, you know, it looks at, you know, you and you wanna look at their composition as well. But my patient population is all women mostly. Who are 40 to 75 and we are fighting against sarcopenia or muscle loss. We all have weight issues and so [00:50:00] a high carbohydrate diet for, uh, these, my patient population is absolutely not the answer.

Dr. Weitz: Great. So how can our viewers and listeners contact you, find out about your programs? I know you have a very busy Facebook group that they could possibly join.

Dr. Stone: Yeah, we’re now over 80,000 members and it is just, 

Dr. Weitz:  Wow, that’s pretty amazing.

Dr. Stone: So they can find me on happy, healthy, and lean. So just go to Facebook and type in happy, healthy, and lean and join the group.  Now I do a masterclass pretty much every single month where I spend three evenings with these ladies, and we do deep dives on weight loss, blood sugar, all things thyroid, and then ways that they can. Things that they can implement into their life to really start changing it. So that’s the best place to, that’s the best place to get more information and to connect.

Dr. Weitz: Sounds good. Thank you so much.

 

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Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast. For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcast or Spotify and give us a five star ratings and review.  As you may know. I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine. If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and want to prevent chronic problems and wanna promote longevity. Please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.

Joe Cohen discusses Biohacking and DNA Testing with Dr. Ben Weitz.

[If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so more people will find The Rational Wellness Podcast. Also check out the video version on my WeitzChiro YouTube page.]

 

Podcast Highlights

Unlocking Health Potential: Joe Cohen on Biohacking, DNA Testing, and Personalized Health
In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, Dr. Ben Weitz welcomes Joe Cohen, a successful biohacker and entrepreneur. Joe shares his journey of overcoming 75 different health issues through extensive research and personal experimentation. He discusses the inception of his companies—SelfHacked, Lab Test Analyzer, and SelfDecode—which utilize advanced DNA analysis and AI to provide personalized health recommendations. The conversation delves into the limitations of conventional and certain functional medicine practices, the importance of precision health, and the integration of comprehensive lab and genetic data in health management. Joe also shares some of his favorite biohacks and longevity strategies, emphasizing the need for personalized care based on individual genetic predispositions and health data. The episode highlights the transformative potential of combining modern technology with expert medical guidance to optimize health outcomes.
00:28 Meet Joe Cohen: Biohacker and Entrepreneur
01:26 Joe’s Personal Health Journey
02:21 The Role of DNA in Health
02:44 Challenges with Conventional and Alternative Medicine
03:13 Precision Health and Genetic Testing
06:45 Functional Medicine: The Good and the Bad
12:44 Advanced Genetic Analysis in Functional Medicine
17:54 The Future of Genetic Testing and Personalized Health
20:31 Practical Applications of Genetic Data
27:16 Exploring the Self Decode Platform
30:35 Apollo Wearable: Enhancing Health with Technology
32:30 Genetic Risks and Lab Correlations
32:55 Fish Oil Benefits and Lifestyle Risks
34:42 The Role of Practitioners in Functional Medicine
35:34 Challenges in Self-Reporting Symptoms
37:24 The Importance of Personalized Medicine
42:35 Vitamin C and Zinc: Personal Experiences
48:38 Niacin and Other Nutrient Insights
51:30 Longevity Hacks and Personalized Care
58:35 SelfDecode: Genetic Testing for Biohackers and Practitioners
01:00:28 Conclusion and Contact Information
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Joe Cohen is a successful biohacker and entrepreneur, the founder and CEO of Self Hacked, Lab Test Analyzer, and now SelfDecode, a DNA analyzer & precision health tool that utilizes AI-driven polygenic risk scoring to produce health recommendations.  The website is selfdecode.com.

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz: Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

Hello, rational Wellness podcasters. Today we will be speaking with Joe Cohen about biohacking and DNA testing. Joe Cohen is a successful biohacker and entrepreneur, the founder and CEO of Self hacked lab test analyzer and Selfdecode DNA analyzer, a precision health tool that utilizes AI driven polygenic risk scoring to produce health recommendations.  His favorite biohacks include lectin avoidance diet, the sun blocking light at night, circadian rhythm, entrainment, pregnenolone, microdosing, THC, butyrate, curcumin, galantamine, and nicotine. Joe, thank you so much for joining us today.

Joe:  Hi. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Weitz:  So what inspired you to start these companies, Self-hacked, lab test analyzers, self decode?

Joe: Yeah, so I had a lot of my own health issues growing up. I had just a whole bunch of different kinds of health issues. I counted 75 when you include all the minor different things going on. 

Dr. Weitz: And so why don’t you tell us about some of those health issues?

Joe: Yeah, I’ve got a whole list of them I published on online, but basically it’s like, you know, mental health, anxiety brain fog, energy issues,  inflammation, then just like random stuff like acne or, you know, things like that. But, you know, when you count it all up, it was it equaled insomnia, sleep issues, all the all the routine stuff plus, you know, a bunch of other stuff.

Dr. Weitz: So how did you manage to deal with these?

Joe: So I, you know, I first got into researching the body from top down first principles, you know, the nuts and bolts. And that’s eventually how I got into the DNA because I realized, hey, this is the fundamental biochemistry and this tells us all the nuts and bolts and, you know, with one test you could really figure out tons of information.  So I would say,

Dr. Weitz:   Did you start out by going to conventional doctors for some of these complaints?

Joe: I did, yeah. Yeah. None of them were able to help me at all. I went to the alternative ones as well, and I didn’t really connect with them too much either. It just seemed like they were using, you know, I don’t know, stuff either that I didn’t believe in or I.  Stuff that was just, it seemed random or that just didn’t work. Right. So it was, it seemed hit or miss, to be honest. And and so I knew the future was precision health. Right. We gotta know first. And that starts with data. So first we have to know what’s going on in the body, what and how do we know what’s going on in the body?  Well, we know there’s genetics and blood testing, right. Lab tests, different kinds of lab tests. Genetics I think is in, in a league of its own, but pretty much you got genetics and then you got blood tests. And I’ve been doing these…

Dr. Weitz:  …and stool tests and urine tests and a lot of other tests. Yeah, sure.  We get different biomarker of what’s going on. Sure.

Joe: Right. Lab testing in general to see what’s going on in the body. That’s like a, you know, that could change from day to day. And then you have the genetics, which is pretty stable. But then that’s where you can learn. Your [00:04:00] predispositions, your, the, all the nuts and bolts of how things are wired, right?  And then you could actually see how things are ticking in reality. But I think you, you want to know both of those things, right? So you want all that data, how you’re wired then plus how, what are the nuts and bolts in reality? The reason why it’s useful to know how you’re wired is because let’s say you have a genetic predisposition for a condition that you have, then the fact that you have it is, you know, there’s probably not that many lifestyle factors or the lifestyle factors are not as significant as it would be if you did not have a genetic risk and you had something.  And I’ve seen this time and again where the things that I have a genetic predisposition for, they were harder to take care of. But actually they were. They required more therapies, like a much more comprehensive approach because when we do genetic analysis [00:05:00] at self decode, we’re looking at millions of variants often.  So it’s kind of looking at a whole picture of pathways and whatnot on how the how your body is wired and if you’re wired for a specific condition and then you end up having that condition, usually it’s more than one mechanism. It’s quite a few mechanisms by which it’s happening. And then just doing one lifestyle approach is usually not gonna solve it.  You would have to combine it with lifestyle, supplements, diet, like more of a comprehensive approach. 

Dr. Weitz: Okay.  So where do we want to start diving into the DNA testing? Is that what you want to focus on today?

Joe: Well, we could I mean, we could just go we could go through my process about how do I, you know, how do I go about solving all these issues, right?  Because I had 75 different health issues. And I think the future of how to solve your health is really through a combination of stuff. So I think there is, you know, there’s a few big ways that you can try to figure out what you need to do, right? I think that’s the biggest question people have is what supplement should I take?  Or what should I do? What’s gonna work for me? Right?

Dr. Weitz:  Sure.

Joe:  And traditionally, you go to a doctor, they look at one symptom, maybe two, and they’re going to say, you have anxiety. You know, here’s a supplement for anxiety. Right. That’s kind of how it works.

Dr. Weitz: Well, that’s not how functional medicine practitioners work, but maybe not all medicine.

Joe: I’m talking about the conventional doctor.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Joe: I would say you go to doctor Yeah. They’re gonna prescribe the drugs. Yeah. Yeah. You have anxiety, so then we’re gonna give you an SSRI. It’s okay, there’s a couple options that doesn’t work. There’s, you know, it’s pretty much a template of how that works.

Dr. Weitz: Sure. A lot of conventional medicine really ends up treating symptoms rather than the underlying cause of the condition.

Joe: Yeah. Now, when we get into functional medicine I think you’re right, it they’re trying to take a broader view and they’re [00:07:00] not saying, you have this condition, therefore, and we’re trying to get

Dr. Weitz: to some of the underlying causes and not just treat the symptom.

Joe: Correct. Exactly. So that’s the goal of functional medicine, is to try to get to, and there’s functional medicine and then there’s not so good functional medicine.

Dr. Weitz:  And it’s easy actually for functional medicine if they don’t really want to do the hard work to just fall into sort of a green version of conventional medicine, which is you have this symptom, don’t take this drug, take this supplement that will do the same thing.

Joe: Absolutely. So I agree with you. I think there’s a lot of people in functional medicine that operate that way. Hey, I know this supplement for this condition. They’re just working with supplements and lifestyle instead of drugs. But the concept wouldn’t be too different with those people in particular.

Right, right. That’s kind of what I was referring to, right when I said, you go to a doctor, it’s kind of like a typical doctor. Even in functional medicine, a [00:08:00] lot of typical doctors work that way. Now. I think that’s moving in a different direction and you know, but now even when we go to the doctors who don’t work that way, then we have to ask, okay, so how are these other people working?

A lot of them are trying to work based on a root cause, like you mentioned, but a root cause could either mean like, a root environmental cause. So you go to the doctor and then they say you have a mold issue, that’s your root cause. Right. Okay. Now I have problems with a lot of those functional medicine practitioners as well, because what happens is

Dr. Weitz: you have the, so you just have to know that’s kind of my orientation.  So I’m probably going to give you some pushback on this, but go ahead.

Joe: Well, no. So, hear me out a little bit. Okay. Your orientation is in, like, you’re focused on mold.

Dr. Weitz: No, but..

Joe:  Oh, just, okay. Oh, I’m not arguing against the general you hear me out and the rest of, okay.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Joe: The problem becomes when a practitioner focuses only on meaning, whoever comes in, they’re gonna say you have a mold problem.

Dr. Weitz:  Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe:  So, not that the clearly environmental factors like mold or infections or, you know, any environmental factor is gonna play a very significant role. The problem is a lot of functional medicine. I’m not saying I, I’m not saying you at all, right. But I’m just saying a lot of functional medicine is gonna say.

We, everyone who comes through the door has a mold problem. Sure. Or everybody who comes through the door has a Lyme problem and now we just have to find the right test to confirm it. Right. So that’s what I’m saying, that’s kind of, I’m breaking functional different types of functional medicine doctors into different categories.  And you know what I’m saying is there is some clearly environmental variables. Clearly a lot of people have mold issues Right. Or environmental to issues. Right. And,

Dr. Weitz: And there’s gotta be an interaction between genetics and the environment because some, obviously Yes. You can put 10 people in a room with mold and you know, you might get two or three of them get horribly sick.  A couple of them get mildly sick. Exactly. And half of them don’t feel anything.

Joe: Exactly. Exactly. So the problem comes when, you know, again, there, there’s gonna be, people who just say that, you know, like I said, they’re gonna focus on one of these environmental factors and their whole business is based on that.

Right? And so it’s like you just come in the door, they just automatically tell you, you got adrenal fatigue, or you got right mold, or you got this. Or, and I’m not saying that, I’m saying each of these factors could be play a role. The problem is that first of all, often there are usually many things that are playing a role 

Dr. Weitz:  By the way, that’s poorly done functional medicine.

Joe: I would agree with that. I’m not against functional medicine, just to be clear, I’m against poorly done functional medicine. Right. So I’m trying to go through the poorly done functional medicine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, go [00:11:00] ahead. I’m going after the straw men here. Not, maybe I should steal man functional medicine a little bit, but I’m going after like, okay, I got it.

Because I’ve encountered these myself. Right, right. You say like, Hey, you tried, you know, you go to a regular doctor, this is exactly what, what’s gonna happen. They’re give you, tell ’em you have anxiety. They give you an SSRI, there’s no other questions ask. Right?

Dr. Weitz: Yeah.

Joe: If you go to a general practitioner, they’ll send you to a psychiatrist.  The psychiatrist will then give you an SRI. Right. If that doesn’t work, there’s a second line treatment. You know, it’s just kind of, you know, you’re like a, you’re like cattle. And so then but yeah, so, and then going, I would say with functional medicine. The, it seems like the type of functional medicine that you’re doing is much more optimal where you’re looking at multiple factors.  You don’t identify everyone as the same var that, that the same factor is causing all their health issues. Right.

Dr. Weitz: Definitely not. I mean, that’s one of the important things about doing a deep dive [00:12:00] into your health history to get some of the, you know, hints at what might be going on, what’s different about your environment, exactly what’s happening to you.  And then, you know, trying to do the right testing to confirm what we think might be going on. And sometimes it turns out to be something different.

Joe: So that’s the, that’s, I think that’s the good part of functional medicine, right? Like you are taking the time to try to understand what’s going on.  You’re trying to do more testing after you have a theory to either confirm or deny your hypothesis. Right? Right, exactly. So I think, yeah, I think that’s that’s the good functional medicine. You’re part of the good crew.

Now what we’re having though I think there’s a next level of functional medicine that is and I’m not saying you’re not using it, I’m just saying that this is where it’s evolving. We’re. You’re using as much data as you can to make intelligent decisions. [00:13:00] Right? Right. And so, the types of data that you could use is, first of all, you have all different kinds of lab testing.

There’s so much different lab tests you could do, like you said, stool, urine a whole variety of blood tests, metabolomics basic lab tests too that doctors order, but that aren’t analyzed properly. Right, right. And then you have genetics is its own space. And you know, I’m in the genetics space, so I have a lot to say about that.

The way that the genetics is done in functional medicine currently is a disaster usually. And the reason is because the way it started, so it started by looking at individual variants. So in functional mess I mean, how much are you into genetics per se?

Dr. Weitz: I use some genetics. Over the years we’ve used certain specific genetic tests that we’ve added on.  I’ve done the taken the the 23 and me or [00:14:00] Ancestry and put it through some software to get some idea of how this might inform and then you can also get a sense of some of the genetic background by looking at what’s going on in the body. Right? So for example, I just had a patient, we did micronutrient testing and she has low vitamin A.

How could she have low vitamin A while she’s taking a prenatal that contains that, that contains a precursor to vitamin A. So that tells me that in her case, she’s not. Able to readily convert the precursor of vitamin A to vitamin A. So she’s gonna need to take vitamin A in a more direct form,

Joe: right?

In the, so she’s taking betacarotene. Yes. And then it’s not converting into retinal. Right. So yeah there’s the BCO gene that is involved in that. Right. Now the, [00:15:00] so I’d say that is, so the way that functional medicine works with genetics is looking at single variants. And sometimes that could be valid.

I think in the specific use case that you used, it is valid. Right. Where you there is, there’s a few variants that are looking at the conversion of betacarotene to retinal. Right. And you could use genetics to see that. Right. And. People also use M-T-H-F-R. And that could also tell you there’s specific important variants that are related to converting synthetic folate to the more active folate than folate.

And so functional medicine uses that. Where it breaks down is when you use it to predict what somebody’s predisposition for a very complex trait. So any disease, almost any disease is a very, is a complex trait. Sure. What that means is that there’s millions, often variants that are involved in that condition.

Right? Let’s [00:16:00] say heart disease, you’re gonna have a million variants that are related to it, of course. ’cause there’s so many things going on in the body that are related to heart disease. The problem is, a lot of these tests, they’re gonna try to tell you based on a couple snips, that your risk of heart disease is higher or lower based on a couple snips.

That’s where the the biggest problem is. So they kind of take that. Same kind of thinking of, we’re gonna use a few snips to figure out if you have a good conversion of betacarotene to retinal or, you know, a conversion of synthetic folate to methylfolate. They then transfer that logic to try to predict more complex traits, which you cannot do unfortunately.

Right. And so what’s happened is the whole functional medicine space in genetics is using that concept where there’s some validity to it, but they’re making it more broad. And then they’re and so then a lot of these companies, it’s very cheap to create any, [00:17:00] a genetic company that looks at a couple snips and just has a PDF report.

It’s a few thousand dollars to create a company. And what happens is these companies get created, they just spend all the money on educating practitioners and marketing. I. Here’s the snips that you need to look at. Right, right. And then, oh, it happens to be our test has all these snips. Right? Right. And so people get trained on like very specific variants.

Which again, you know, when we looked at all these tests, we realized that there, it’s not valid to predict any kind of complex trait. You could predict the lactose intolerance. You could predict a couple other things. Maybe you could predict a P OE and BRCA with specific variants, but you cannot predict a complex trait.

And so conditions in general, diseases conditions, these are complex trait. Sometimes nutrients have less variants, but sometimes they have a lot of variants that are related to it. So, I think the future of functional medicine is gonna be looking at much more [00:18:00] advanced software in genetics. Is looking at you know, looking at millions of variants and again, there’s a re there’s a reason why companies don’t do it.

’cause to build this infrastructure, first of all, we have 25 engineers just to maintain this stuff. Right? Right. It’s very complex. Right. Whereas if we just built a I, the initial version of what we had was basically what all these other companies have, just A PDF, it’s very cheap. There’s no server costs.  You know, we’re paying like, you know, $60,000 a month just on server costs. Whereas if we just had a PDF with like 50 SNPs, it would cost almost nothing, right? ’cause very little processing there.

Dr. Weitz: So the difference between your genetic testing and say taking data from 23 and me and analyzing it is what?

Joe: I mean, it’s huge. So I wouldn’t say taking data from 23 and me per se I would say ’cause 23 and Me is, the data itself is, okay. Okay. They’re looking at, let’s say [00:19:00] 700,000 variants. Right? What you still have to do after that, you have to put it through software that we, you know, we built this software that, it’s called imputation, that looks, you can extract, that you can actually predict all of somebody’s variance, right.

Based on these 700,000 variants Okay. With the right software. The problem becomes when you do a test that it’s only looking at 50 SNPs or something like that. Oh, okay. And yeah and so it’s not the test itself, it’s the analysis. But then a lot of these companies will only do the 50 SNPs that they’re looking at because they don’t see any need to do other ones.

So you cannot reuse that data anywhere else. Right. The 23 and Mees, you could reuse. It’s still better if you do it with us because. When you don’t get it directly from the lab, you’re missing actually a lot of data. That text file that you have is is just a fraction of what the data that comes off the lab is.

They do it because you can easily download that data on your computer as a text file, [00:20:00] right. And upload it. Or you can’t handle a VCF file. You need specialized software for it. So the idea is that you know, and the other thing is, yeah, so, and the other thing is when you have too many different kinds of files, it’s becomes complex.

Like we validate it on our type of file, and then when if you change it around, sometimes the results are not exactly the same. So the idea is that the 23 and me files are not so bad in and of itself. That isn’t the issue. The issue is the analysis. Right. And so I think number one is I think when you have good genetic analysis, I think you could, I, I think that could really make a very big difference.

With predicting what is somebody at risk for and also predicting what kind of recommendations they need based on all their genetic risks and all their variants that they have. So, that’s one. And then I think you want to do a lot of biomarker testing, especially the ones that are applicable to see what is you know, what’s [00:21:00] actually wrong in reality.

Right. To see which that are related are being

Dr. Weitz: expressed or not.

Joe: Yeah. Or just, you know, which lab tests that are related to specific issues that they have. Right, right. You wanna do those lab tests. Sure. So if it’s, you might have an inflammatory risk of

Dr. Weitz: hypertension, but you might not have hypertension or you might have an increased risk of small dense LDL and you might not have elevated small dense LDL.

Joe: Right, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, it’s, it is actually interesting. Do you ever test a POB in your practice? Yeah, of course. Okay. So. I had a genetic risk of high A OB. Okay. High lipoprotein A. Okay, but normal LDL cholesterol. Okay. Now LDL cholesterol and a OB are correlated.

Dr. Weitz: Yes. They usually track with each other.

Joe: They usually track, right? Yeah. Now, the thing is that because my genetic risk was typical, my genetic risk for a OB was [00:22:00] high. It turns out that I can normalize my LDL cholesterol just by changing one lifestyle factors, how much saturated fat I eat.

Dr. Weitz: Okay? It does

Joe: not normalize my A OB.

Dr. Weitz: Okay?

Joe: Yeah. So if I want to normalize my LDL cholesterol, this any, like, there’s so many things I could bring it down with drugs, diet, supplements, when I wanna normalize my A OB.  It could go down, but it’s way harder because I have a very high genetic risk for that.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. It’s unusual. I, most of the patients I’ve seen who have a elevated A OB, usually the things that would lower their LDL, lower their A OB ’cause that’s part of a OB.

Joe: And that’s true. And the things that lower one is going lower the other.  But when you look at the magnitude, my LDL cholesterol was at two 50 at one point. And then it went down to 50. But my A OB was one 20 and went down to the 60 at the lowest. Now. Now what about your LDL

Dr. Weitz: particle number? ’cause I think that’s the LDL [00:23:00] particle number closely with A OB.

Joe: It does. That was also more difficult to go down.  Right? More difficult than the LDL cholesterol.

Dr. Weitz: Right, because LDL is an estimated number. It says you have this much LDL, right? Not how many particles you have. And the smaller dense particles are the riskier ones that are more likely to create plaque.

Joe: Correct. Exactly. So, I mean, and then, you know, was able to find that I had like, so number one is they did call my a OB genetic risk correctly for sure.  It’s very clear that I have high A OB and an LDL particle count, and then it also called my a lipoprotein a. And so genetics can really do a very vast screening of predispositions, whether you’re gonna heart disease, kidney disease cancers are more environmental, so it’s not as accurate. But you still can get a very good screening of a whole bunch of conditions.

And and if you have something, you could also use it as a differential [00:24:00] diagnosis to see. Okay, how much is this genetic versus lifestyle? And I find that’s quite accurate in the sense that when something’s more genetic, it usually requires more things. When it’s lifestyle based, it’s usually one thing that’s causing it.

That’s when the mold things could be more like, oh, you got one infection that’s just okay that, you know, you got mold and you just take the mold away, then you shouldn’t have a problem. That’s the theoretically, right. Like, ’cause it’s one environmental variable

Dr. Weitz: and it should also be able to help us decide which therapies gonna be more effective for you versus someone else.

Joe: Exactly. So that it also helps determine, based on specific variants, you could kind of upvote a little bit in terms of the recommendations. That’s what we do with these specific variants. We will give it a little more waiting. You know, number one is that, so the issue with these other companies is that they’re gonna give a.

A recommendation just based on the snp. You cannot do that because you first have to find all the things that are relevant for a condition and then you can weight them up or down [00:25:00] based on specific variants. Right? Meaning like if you wanna see, okay, oh, you have this snip for LDL or whatever, you’re not gonna say, take this first.

You’re gonna see what are all the things that work for LDL? Okay, berberine could work for LDL cholesterol or Apo B. Do you have a specific snip that Berberine helps even more with right then? Then it might help even more. That’s the idea. It’s not and then this pharmacogenomics as well, which, you know, if somebody’s dealing with pharmaceuticals, they could see which pharmaceuticals are more likely to benefit them as well.

So it’s, you see the concept of pharmacogenomics, it does translate into supplements. There is gonna be specific variants that could up, you know, make something more or less likely to work, but you’re not gonna be able to predict based on specific variants, because that is more like, based on too much information.

So, so that’s where the newest genetic technologies have come. And that’s what we, that’s what our, you know, that’s what we mainly work on, plus the software [00:26:00] to bring it all together so that it makes it easy for people to like, understand what they need to do. And then they can look that over with their doctor and things like that.

Dr. Weitz: Right. So is your software is your self decode, genetic program, is it designed for specifically for patients or practitioners? Or is there a version for each? Both.

Joe: Okay. Both is a version for each. Yeah. Actually we’re gonna separate the practitioner one into a different brand. But essentially, yeah, it could be used for both.  ’cause the. The hard part about genetics is if with the more comprehensive the platform you have, the harder it is for the individual to understand what they need to look through. Right.

Dr. Weitz: And the harder it is, even for practitioner to integrate it into it. ’cause I can recall using this other software for that, one of the supplement companies set up to analyze DNA data and in the midst of a, you [00:27:00] know, even long hour and a half consultation and we’re going through their history.

And then to try to put into all this genetic data on top of it is, you know, when looking through pages and pages of data. Yeah.

Joe: So I can, if I share my screen visually I can show how this is my approach. This is, I mean, I, I. I have, we have a big science team, but I designed the, kind of the recommendation engine to fit with my general approach.

And I could show you how that looks if you’d like. Sure. So like, this is a, you know, a recommendation engine. Right. Okay. And let’s say if we click on, is there any, so is there anything here that particularly interests you? Would you like to,

Dr. Weitz: I mean all those, why don’t you look at fish oil?

Joe: Okay.

This is gonna tell me that all the things the fish oil helps me with. Okay. Okay. And so these are [00:28:00] based on questionnaires and so I’ve had symptoms, conditions, gut inflammation, and mood issues in the past. Okay. Okay. And so fish oil helps with both of these issues. And if you click on this, it’ll show you all the references and exactly how.

But the idea is that. It’s saying that fish oil is helping these specific issues for me, right. These are the goals that I have Okay. That fish oils helps with. Right. You can, again, you can click on any one specifically if you’re like, Hey, how does fish oil help with that? Right.

Dr. Weitz: What do you got to say about fish oil and prostate cancer?

That’s a good question.

Joe: Let’s

Dr. Weitz: see.

Joe: Omega-3 fatty acids so let’s see. It possesses anti-inflammatory effects and it works by reducing inflammation in prostate T tissue. It helps regulate testosterone metabolism, inhibit the five alpha reductase enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT, which is associated with [00:29:00] prostate cancer.

Basically, yeah. And there’s gonna, you know, there’s some. Studies showing like probably correlations with the fish oil consumption and lower risk of prostate cancer. Okay. Yeah. So the idea is that, you know, it’s these, like, there might seem like I, there it might seem like I have a lot of genetic risks here, but actually there’s, you know, 1300 reports and genetic risks essentially and it’s just taking the ones that I have high risk for.

Now.

Dr. Weitz: Now since you mentioned prostate cancer, you know, when you start getting into summarizing data, scientific data, there’s so many different reports and so much controversy. I wonder how you decide how to sort through that.

Joe: Well, it’s sorted through an impact system and a science system based on one to five.

Okay. And. The, in order to be a one, it has to have some kind of clinical [00:30:00] trial. It could be small, right? But it has to be a clinical trial now, right? Like for example, prostate

Dr. Weitz: cancer. There was one study that gets repeated a lot where they looked at DHA and EPA levels and found that slight differences increase the risk of fatal prostate cancer.

And you’ve still got doctors out there saying, don’t take Omega-3 if you have prostate cancer. Based on that one terrible study in which none of the participants were actually taking fish oil. Exactly.

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Joe: The thing is, let’s say if you, if it’s a impact of one.  Then sometimes it’s just gonna be wrong. There’s, there could be a clinical trial on something that’s just wrong. It’s not reproducible. The thing is that it, it could get drowned out by, you know, a lot of other data essentially. Right. I if you’re assuming that most of the time it’s gonna be right, then overall the information is gonna be correct.  So these are my genetic risks, and then it’s looking at my symptoms, conditions, and goals. And it also looks at my lab risks. So these are all the lab tests that were suboptimal in the past. Okay. The these are the ones that are read are still suboptimal and the last lab results.

Dr. Weitz: So, so you get your genetic data, you put in your labs and then this correlates it.

Joe: Correct. Exactly. So the stuff that’s higher up, fish oil is number five as it [00:33:00] relates to supplements. It’s higher up because if you notice there’s 23 genetic risks that it helps with. That’s out of, you know, there’s 69 things. I don’t have a genetic risk that it helps for as well. Okay. But just the things that I have a genetic risk for, it helps with 23 of them.

And then I have 27 labs, nine current 18 past that it’s helping with. And part of the reasons why some of these are passed is because I’m also taking fish oil, right? So, right. You could see, you know, the certain things that were just not optimal in the past are currently optimal. Right? And it could be that fish oil help with making a lot of these optimal, right?

And then there’s lifestyle risks based on just questionnaires. This is what a doctor will look at when they’re taking family histories and, but it’s just more intelligent more intelligent system. So, you know, basically the idea is you wanna look at the symptoms and conditions, but not just one as many as you [00:34:00] can.

You wanna look at somebody’s goals, you wanna look at all their DNA risks. You wanna look at older elaborates, but not just one at a time, as many as you can. And you wanna look at their lifestyle risks as many as you can as well. And then sometimes you have genetic, you see this symbol, there’s a specific genetic variant that can help even more with how, you know, fish oil and migraines, for example.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Joe: Right. So that’s kind of, you know, there, there could be a genetic variant attached to making something work a little better. But that’s the idea of how I think that’s kind of my ideal of how I think functional medicine should work. Sure is. You know, and then you also need a, an individual attached to it who understands supplements, who understands lifestyle, who understands how to use different softwares, who understands, you know, what to make of.  The impact of each of these things. Like, okay, what don’t freak out about [00:35:00] this lab test. Don’t worry about that. Right. You know, like what to worry about, what to not, there’s too many there’s too much data that kind of go in between the cracks that it’s hard to, you know, you can’t just, like, yeah.

You have to have somebody who really is knowledgeable and I think that could help tremendously. But that’s why I’m saying we also have a practitioner platform because I think people are benefited when practitioners who are knowledgeable know what they’re talking about. Because there’s a lot of questions that people have that’s impossible for them to just understand.  You know, there’s too many things going on. Right, right. So even filling out the symptoms and conditions, by the way. Right. I have some clients. I find that they can’t do that even properly. I’m like, so what, who really,

Dr. Weitz: you know, who’re really bad at that is men, you know, I, we have all the patients among the paperwork, fill out this symptom questionnaire and women will check off like 90 different things and men will check off one thing and then you start talking to him and they [00:36:00] go, yeah, my gut sucks.  I got this, I got that. And I go, we shouldn’t fill any of that out. Wow.

Joe: Actually I have the same experience as far as I can tell. It is like, the men are usually a lot worse than that. It’s like, no, I don’t have any issues. I just have this one issue here that I’m trying to fix. But then actually find out I go through their DNA risks.  All predispositions. And I’m like, do you have this? I’m like, oh, you know what? Actually I do have, you know, and sometimes they don’t even know. Like, you know, I, the other day, like, this guy’s like, yeah, my nose is stuff, but I don’t, I’m like, do, I’m like I think I asked and I asked him before, I’m like, do you have any allergies?

He said, no. Because he had a genetic risk for it, that he had allergies. Right? I was like, he’s like, no. I’m like, okay. He’s like, and then it just came out later that his nose was always stuff. I’m like, he is like, yeah, it’s just like during poll and season and stuff like that. I’m like, yeah, that’s, those are allergies by the way.

He’s like, oh. I’m like, yeah, [00:37:00] let’s add allergies in here. So, you know, a lot of people don’t even know what symptoms or conditions they have. And there, there’s no software that you can do that’s gonna ever fix that. Right? Like, you have to talk to somebody. Yes. See what’s going on.

Dr. Weitz: Right.

Joe: So what I’m saying is that there’s.

Dr. Weitz: Think, oh, you mean the fact that I haven’t taken a dump in three days means I have conservation.

Joe: Exactly. Exactly. It’s the fact the bottom line though is that I think we’re living in a very exciting age where you have AI and software that is able to do a lot, but it just it’s similar to like software developers, you know, these these diagrams where it shows like, you know, the demand for 80 for software developers is declining rapidly.  But the people who are staying around the, if you’re a good software developer who could use these AI tools, well there’s actually even more demand. Right? Okay. So I think the same thing is gonna go with doctors especially with functional medicine. The people who [00:38:00] are not very good, I think are worthless are, I mean, to say it very meanly, but like I, you know, if somebody’s not very good.  Just use software, maybe chat, GPT even, you know, but if somebody’s good, they could utilize tools and really understand things way better than, right, because chat GP t’s gonna be wrong a lot of the times and whatnot. Right? They’re not gonna understand the context or, you know, the person’s environment or it is, there’s a lot of things, there’s a lot of gaps that are missing.

So, but what I think is that now with the, with technology, I think the right practitioner who has an understanding you know, can really leverage things. New lab testing that we have, right? And to really have a much better result ’cause the amount of lab testing that’s out there. And I just see the genetic testing just as its own huge, again, huge changes are happening.

But also just with any kind of lab test, you saw how many lab tests I [00:39:00] had that I had done and, you know, you could sort them, okay, these are not optimal. And by the way, the fish oil helps with. 27 of these lab markers. Right? Right. And again, now the question is, okay, which fish oil do you get and how much and when, and you know, you, you give somebody a fish oil, they say, okay, I got a little nauseous.  Okay, then take less of it. Right. These are kind of where you need doctors to understand the patient.

Dr. Weitz: And ideally you need to not just test, but you need to retest. So you give somebody two grams of fish oil and their Omega-3 level is still low, well then that’s not the right amount for you.

Joe: Right. And by the way, I had a experience with that.  I was taking two grams of high concentrated fish oil. Right. And my Omega-3 levels were still low. Right. And what I realized from that experience, I was doing a lot of testing. So I was testing it a bunch of times. What I realized is every time I had an, my body was fighting an infection. It just took all [00:40:00] the EPA, right?

It just used up all the EPA. It turns out that EPA is needed when you have infections. And so I was doing these tests when I was traveling, right? So you go on a plane, you get an infection, right? Whether you feel it or not, you’re gonna get an infection, right? You know, you’re traveling around the world, you go to India, wherever you’re getting infections, right?

And then your body is just using up EPA, like crazy, right? And more than DHA, just EPA, actually, right? And what I realized, I started just taking like five grams of high concentrated fish oil a day. Finally, it was enough, right? Right. Because you get one infection, it’s just gonna wipe out your EPA stores, right?

Or you get inflammation or something. And what I found is just I think we need more EP more fish oil now than ever before because we used to live in like these small tribes where. You interacted with like 20 people and those people never used an airplane. Right? They [00:41:00] never, they had a, you know, they maybe they had a horse at a certain point, like in recent years, right?

5,000 years ago. I think the horses came out before that you were just walking everywhere. Right. So it’s like you, maybe you interacted with like a hundred people in your whole lifetime. Right. Whereas now, you know, just something could spread throughout the world and you get that infection. I mean, you could, if you’re traveling a lot, you could be getting, you know, 20 infections a year easily.

Right?

Dr. Weitz: Sure. And we have a lot more bugs that are resistant to antibiotics and, you know, we’re less likely to have immunity against them.

Joe: Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, these viruses are always evolving and whatnot. Right. But we’re just, we’re exposed to so much stuff that I think that. Assuming, you know, we’re eating fish all day, even we still might, you know, it’s still possible to be deficient in Omega-3.

Right, right. And I think a lot [00:42:00] of nutrients are like that actually is that it’s not, you know, there’s, there is an RDA, but I think the RDA goes to shit when, whenever there’s more an increased need for any reason.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. The RDA is just based on a particular disease that occurs if you have below a certain amount.

Right, exactly. And we’re not taking fish oil. Well said. You know, we’re not taking vitamin C to prevent scurvy. You know, we’re taking vitamin C because we want to scavenge some of these free radical reactions that would otherwise damage our tissue. So,

Joe: well, yeah and now that you mention that, I also have another example there with vitamin C.  So. Allegedly. Right. And it seems like if you’re taking, you, you only need 60 gram milligrams of vitamin CA day or maybe 90 Right. To

Dr. Weitz: prevent scurvy.

Joe: Right. So I said, you know, I’m gonna take two grams of vitamin CA day. Yeah. And I was taking it in the form of slow [00:43:00] release and throughout the day.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Joe: So I was getting a steady dosage of vitamin C. Yeah. And the reason was because, you know, over two grams you increase your risk for kidney stones and arguably and argue. Yeah, sure. But that’s where I was coming from. And then, so then I kept on taking these tests for serum vitamin C ’cause there’s, you know, there’s studies about serum vitamin C and health outcomes.

I kept on having low levels. I’m like, what the hell is going on here? Right, right. Then I just said, you know what, I’m gonna just start doing like mega dosing experiments on. Vitamin C, like taking some liposomal. Okay. So I just started taking like five grams liposomal vitamin C, and all of a sudden, like all of like my injuries started to, like any injury that I had that wasn’t fully healed just started to heal.

Yeah. And then, and also it made me feel very relaxed, right? I was like, what is going on? Well, it turns out now I [00:44:00] know what’s going on. So first of all, apparently I was using just a lot more vitamin C, right? So it’s not relevant. And then the other thing besides how much I was using vitamin C is a rate limiting factor for collagen synthesis, right?

And collagen is pretty much you need it for your muscles, you need it for your gut, you need it for your tendons, your joints, everything. Your whole body is like just collagen. Yeah. And so I also, that fixed some of the last food sensitivity sensitivities that I had because it was the rate limiting factor for my gut Right.

To produce collagen and basically patch things up there. Right. So when I started taking like 12 grams of vitamin CA day throughout the day, all of a sudden I noticed some very big changes, lab tests. There were certain lab tests that were improving kidney markers. Yeah. There was my injuries start to heal.

It was great for my mood. Like I was, it made me like really relaxed. Right. [00:45:00] And vitamin C. So vitamin C is also needed to dispose of glutamate. Right? Right. So, it could help dispose of glutamate and it’s also, it uses like different resources to help create collagen. So clearly. The 60 or 90 milligrams of vitamin CA day was garbage.

Right. And even the two grams for me didn’t work out very well. I needed to take 12 grams of vitamin CA day.

Dr. Weitz: That’s personalized medicine and you gotta find the right amount for you. That’s, and I was also getting help, help us to understand why

Joe: that Exactly. Genetic testing, testing work and then also lab testing, right.

Because I measured serum, serum vitamin C. And you know, maybe even just looking at symptoms, conditions and goals and, you know, like just looking at the big picture. Right? So the thing is that yeah, I even also got sick less often then when I looked at the literature. ’cause I was like, how is this possible?

Something doesn’t make sense [00:46:00] here because you hear that you can’t even absorb it and you get, you pay it out. And I was like, something doesn’t, you look at the literature, it turns out that when they did these studies on vitamin C and immunity. The higher that you took the higher dosage, the better your immunity was, the less likely you were get sick, even at the 12 gram dosage.  Right. So, and I found that fascinating because you speak to a biochemist and they’re like, no, it’s not possible. Right. You can, you’re just gonna pee it out. Right. But I’m just like, I don’t, you know, I feel the difference. Right. Like it’s clear in all these parameters.

Dr. Weitz: Had I had a similar experience with zinc and thyroid and my TSHI tried taking high-dose iodine and my TSH went up to 25 and I ha I kept coming up with low zinc, even though I was taking zinc and then I took a genetic test to find out I can’t absorb zinc that well and I had to take more zinc and my TSH went down to five.

Joe: Right. And same actually, you mentioned zinc. I had the [00:47:00] same experience. My genetic results show that I have a higher need for zinc and. Was eating. I remember I was eating a lot of meat, just like, I mean, you know, I was on a, like a paleo diet. Paleo, yeah. Yeah. And I, so I’m eating a lot of meat and my zinc was low.   I’m like, what the hell is going on here? Right. And, you know, then I started taking zinc. Ever since I’ve been taking 10 milligrams I was taking more. But then the zinc went a little high. I found 10 milligrams, actually the right dosage for me, long term. Right. But that’s with a high meat diet.  Imagine if you are not eating a high meat diet. Right. I mean, like, if you know, it’s you’re,

Dr. Weitz: it’s gonna be really hard to get a good level of zinc depending upon what your body needs.

Joe: Yeah. So I’ve had so many experiences where you hear the RDA for a nutrient is one thing, and then my experience is completely [00:48:00] different.

I’ve experienced, I could tell you all the nutrients I’ve experienced this with thymine. Yeah. B one. So that’s when I took it. Like, I was like, oh, I’m getting meat. Meat has thymine. You’re like, yeah, I’m getting enough thymine. Right. Then I, and then even when I was taking like 10 milligrams of thymine, which is more than the two milligrams you need, right.

I still was like I felt like, you know what, like, ’cause the effect that you get from thymine increases gaba. I said, you know what? It feels like I have too much glutamate. So I took more thymine and I just felt that relaxation and I just felt like, okay, that was, that hit the spot. That’s what I was missing.

Right. Niacin was something that you know, they tell you not to take more than like 20 milligrams a day. Yeah. Right. And I realized that first of all, niacin also helps convert glutamate. It all, it reduces glutamate, increases serotonin, and it improved all my food sensitivities when I took [00:49:00] higher doses

Dr. Weitz: By the way, it also lowers your LP little a, it helps make small, dense LDL larger particles

Joe: That I didn’t notice.  The, it did not lower my LP little a even though there’s some studies for that. Well, partly because you have to take a lot of it, like 2,500 milligrams. You, well, not that much, but maybe 2000, whatever. But it, the smaller stuff, the smaller doses weren’t working for me. Right. And even the larger doses, like I’d say I was taking 1500 milligrams at the max, it was causing some issues with insulin resistance and some other things.

So I, right. Now I go down to just like two, 300. Right. But it made a huge difference. Niacin was huge. I also took a test with the choda had poor mitochondrial function and after I took niacin, it was like a, you know, switch turned on like energy. Crazy. My mitochondria started working right from niacin.

Dr. Weitz: What test was that for? The mitochondria you took?

Joe: It’s, it was actually a European one. It was like this bio, I gotta look it up, but it was Oh, okay. It was funny ’cause I actually discovered that I needed niacin at the same time. I got that result right before I got the result. And their main recommendation was just niacin.  Right, right. But I realized I needed niacin part in part through symptoms, conditions, genetics, like all these. And in lab testing, my phosphorus was high, my serum phosphorus.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. I

Joe: said I was looking for what can reduce serum phosphorus. It turns out a hundred milligrams niacin. Reduces serum phosphorus by quite a lot, and if you have serum phosphorus that’s gonna cause cardiovascular disease, all a whole bunch of different issues.

So I said, okay, let me try it. I try a hundred milligrams. I was like, whoa, I’m getting so much energy from this thing. And it was just like a light switch turn. And then I realized, hey, niacin’s also involved in food sensitivities and all these things. And so it just, it all just started clicking together [00:51:00] and now I take it every day and it’s you know, it’s incredible.

It’s a game changer. Again, you look at the RDA, what is it like 15 milligrams a day or something, like, it’s just a joke. Yeah. Cool. And so yeah, basically you go down the board of like different kinds of nutrients. And I just realized like none of this RDA stuff is relevant at all.

Dr. Weitz: I totally agree with you.  So we’re gonna need to wrap in a few minutes here. How about a give us one of your favorite longevity hacks.

Joe: Ooh, one of my favorite longevity hacks.

Dr. Weitz: There’s so many out there people using NED precursors, they’re using there there’s so many new that are constantly coming up.

Well,

Joe: Let me just start with, I think data is critical because I think longevity, number one is longevity. The people who are centenarians, they live to a hundred because they just prevent the d they don’t get [00:52:00] the diseases of like, Alzheimer’s, cardiovascular, they just push it off by 20 years, right?  So instead of living to 80, you live to a hundred, right? So I think number one is data, right? So genetics, lab testing, they’re gonna predict what you’re gonna get in the future. I think number one is you have, you can’t talk about longevity without talking about the data piece. Right. But now if we just want to talk about what are like my hacks for longevity I do take rapamycin.  Oh, okay.

Dr. Weitz: Once a week or what?

Joe: Less because I do notice there’s some side effects with rapamycin. Okay. So rapamycin, if I take it once a week, I will get sick more often. Okay. No question about it. Yeah. It is immune suppressant. So, yes. What I try to do is probably I have to take it strategically when I’m not traveling.

And maybe like once every three weeks instead of once a week. Okay. Or else you are [00:53:00] gonna start getting more of those side effects. But I do notice that the rapamycin helped with my food sensitivities as well, so there’s other benefits to it. Yeah. So I, I think that’s a good one. Rapamycin is the most studied one.

There’s one that I recently, there’s two of them that I recently started that I think are good and y you know about the ITP with, they study the mice for longevity agents. Yeah. Yeah. So I follow that mostly. Okay. I’m taking all the things that have been proven to work there or, and my, on my set least.

Right. Okay. So, and the ones that I noticed. The effects that I like first of all, I take Canagliflozin, which is an anti-diabetic drug. Okay. And one thing I noticed from that is it, my hba one C before was like 5.3. 5.4 went down to five. Okay. So it, it did the job without any side effects. So you just pee out more glucose, pretty much.

[00:54:00] Right. Unless you have a urin, you’re predisposed urinary tract infections, that’s pretty much the only issue there. Right. Because you’re peeing out more glucose. But so I just pee out more glucose. And, but also my fasting glucose was always between 90 and 110. Oh, okay. ’cause I’m on a low carb diet.

Yeah. And usually it’s like hovers around a hundred. With the canagliflozin it went down to 85. Right. So even though my HBA one C was normal, fasting still was not normal. And, the Coga Flowin help with that. So, that’s for me, again, I’m giving you examples of things that I wouldn’t rec necessarily recommend to other people.

Because if, for example, if you don’t have any food sensitivities or any sterile inflammation, I don’t know if rapamycin is the best approach, you might get sick too much. Right. And if you don’t have any blood sugar, if your blood sugar is optimal already you might have that great genetic predisposition for great blood [00:55:00] sugar.

I don’t know how much the canagliflozin is going to do. You better. Right. Like generally the lower the blood sugar the better, but there is diminishing returns at a certain point.

Dr. Weitz: Sure. You don’t want it to go below 70 or 60.

Joe: Right. Exactly. Then I also take a carbos. Okay. And I take that because, also it was shown to help in the ITP and there’s no side effects. It just blocks the absorption of glucose. That didn’t have as big of an effect for me. ’cause I’m already on a low carb diet. So that was minimal, but still something. And if you want a natural one, it would just be like white kidney bean extract.

It’s gonna have a similar effect. So I’ll actually switch off if I can’t get the drug. Okay. And then the other ones like glycine I do very well with and astaxanthin. So glycine is an interesting one. What I found is I’ve been taking it for like 15 years, but I only recently realized that it was a rate limiting factor for collagen production [00:56:00] from before It wasn’t.

Okay. So when you’re basically, I’ve been bopping around like different time periods in my life. Different things were rate limiting factors for collagen. So when you’re not getting enough niacin or like there’s certain nutrients that if you’re not getting enough of, like if you don’t have enough cystine or if you don’t have enough what are some of the, like, there’s a whole bunch of them.

If you don’t have enough sulfur or vitamin C, those could be the rate limiting factors. Right? Right. And so up until recently, glycine was not my rate limiting factor. And so when I took glycine, I didn’t notice anything. Right. Recently it was the rate limiting factor. And when I took it, I all of a sudden noticed, first of all, it made me a lot more calm because you know, basically it’s just taking the glutamate out and turning it into you know, glutathione, right?

So it’s taking the glutamate out and turning it to glutathione. So, what I’d say is like this, I mean, honestly, you asked about the longevity hacks. Then I would say the last things I, I do take, so [00:57:00] I, the things that I do take are very geared towards me. So I will take a PCSK nine inhibitor.

Okay. But I don’t recommend that. But that’s only because I have high lipoprotein A and high A LB. Right? If you don’t have that, then I don’t, I would not take it. Right. And actually studies show that the people who the PCSK nine inhibitor helps the most is the people who have also higher lipoprotein A.

So I think all these things plus a lot more, I’m just giving you a small sample, are helping me with longevity, but I cannot say that they would help other people. If you’re gonna get more sick from rapamycin right then. And by the way if I think when they’re doing these studies on mice, these mice are not traveling across the globe,

Dr. Weitz: right?

Yeah. Yeah. So the point is personalized care, the right the right recommendations for the right person at the right time.

Joe: Yeah. And I wanted to give specific examples of what I’m actually doing for myself, right? But I want to be careful that this is [00:58:00] not a pro a protocol for other people, right?

It’s kind of like each, with longevity it’s also very personalized, right? You gotta find what are the main things. I have a risk for cardiovascular disease genetically with the. Bad biomarkers, I have to do this. There’s no, it’s not a question for me. It, you know, whereas if I didn’t have the predisposition on and I didn’t have the biomarkers, it would be a completely different story.

And then I have a, my pharmacogenetic result came back and I have muscle pain from statins, which actually I already knew ’cause I tried three different statins and Right. All of them caused muscle pain.

Dr. Weitz: Cool. So, how can listeners patients practitioners find out about your TE DDNA testing?

Joe: They could go to self decode.com.

Okay. And yeah, there’s yeah, they could. Look at all the information there about the DNA test. And I really think that it’s the, yeah, it’s, with one test, you could really get so many pieces of data. It’s 200 million [00:59:00] data points that you could use for so many different things. And

Dr. Weitz: did you say there’s a separate login for practitioners?

A separate? There is.

Joe: I mean, it’s still gonna, right now it’s still on self decode.com. You’ll always be able to get there, but we’re going to put it on a different site just because eventually, like, probably in a few months, one or two months because there is a different platform. I just think that the the reason why we were separating is just because self decode is more like for biohackers, right?

Right. A regular person who wants to do a genetic test that’s not a biohacker. Should probably go through a doctor, right? Like, or a health coach or somebody, you know, like Right. Somebody that’s gonna guide them. Right. And so if you look at self decode, it’s like there’s a lot of like, you know, you could see it’s geared to biohackers, but the practitioner side is not related to biohackers.

I think it’s the other end of it where you’re, you know, the biohacker is somebody who’s just gonna be trying all these things on their own without guidance [01:00:00] sometimes. Right? Sometimes with, but most people are not biohackers and they need these practitioners. So I think there’s relevant, like I would say I’m a biohacker I take, you know, over 160 supplements a day and p you know, when you Yeah.

160 supplements and pharmaceuticals. And I’m like really going through all this stuff on my own and, you know, I speak to doctors a lot, but the idea is that people are not like, you know, I see most people, they need people to guide them. Absolutely.

Dr. Weitz: Okay, great. Thank you so much, Joe.

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Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast.  For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcast or Spotify and give us a five star readings and review. As you may know, I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine. If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and wanna prevent chronic problems and wanna promote longevity, please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.

Dr. Ben Weitz discusses his Personal Health Crisis.

[If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so more people will find The Rational Wellness Podcast. Also check out the video version on my WeitzChiro YouTube page.]

 

Podcast Highlights

Overcoming a Major Health Crisis: Dr. Ben Weitz’s Personal Journey and Bone Healing Protocols
In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, Dr. Ben Weitz narrates his experience of suffering a femur fracture on Halloween 2023 and the subsequent health challenges he faced. He details his recovery journey, which included surgery, physical therapy, and his expertise in functional medicine. Dr. Weitz discusses the use of specific medications such as Forteo and human growth hormone, as well as supplements like Vitamin D, calcium, magnesium, and others tailored for bone health. He also utilized a bone stimulator to aid his healing. Emphasizing the importance of proper nutrition, adequate sleep, and controlled stress, he achieved full recovery without additional surgery. Dr. Weitz shares valuable insights into osteoporosis treatments, the balance of osteoblasts and osteoclasts in bone health, and the role of nutritional supplements. He encourages a holistic approach to healing and maintaining health.
00:26 A Personal Health Crisis: My Story
02:00 The Initial Diagnosis and Surgery
03:24 Challenges in Healing and Medical Opinions
07:23 Exploring Treatment Options
17:32 The Role of Supplements and Nutrition
28:56 The Healing Journey and Final Thoughts
33:09 Conclusion and Call to Action
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Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz:  Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

Hello, Rational Wellness podcasters. Today I am going to talk about the health crisis that I personally went through a year ago. A lot of my friends in the functional medicine world got into functional medicine partially because they had a health crisis that they had to deal with, and that’s one of the things that led them to seek out alternative care and eventually functional medicine.  But I never had any major health crisis until, a little over a year ago when on, Halloween of 2023, I was handing out Halloween candy at my home and we have hardwood floors, and I had socks on and I had something in my right hand. I had the dog’s leash in my left hand, and the dog pulled my leg slid, and I went down on my right hip and I fractured my femur.

At first, I didn’t realize how bad it was. I looked down at my feet and I noticed that my right foot was flared out, and initially my wife offered to help me help get me up off the floor, and I tried to pick my right foot. To put it in a position equal with my other foot, and I wasn’t able to. And so I quickly realized that I had broken my leg and I asked her to call the paramedics and I ended up going to St. John’s Emergency Room in Santa Monica. And the following day, I ended up having surgery to repair my proximal femur. So I had two steel rods put into my femur.  Unfortunately, after the surgery, and I’m not sure why, if it was a problem with the surgical technique or just the result of the situation,  I do realize it was a complicated fracture, but the two pieces of the femur were not flush up against each other. There was a gap. And that makes it more difficult for a bone to heal, to fill in bone when there’s a gap. But I was confident that I would heal despite being 66 years of age. I’ve always been healthy. I’ve always healed well from other injuries, and I was confident that I would heal.

So each month I went and got another x-ray. And every month for four straight months I found out that there was still a gap that was not filled in by bone. I even had a CT scan and there was some discussion of this being a fibrous union, though there was no bone filling in. And so it was diagnosed as a non-union after four months, and I was told by several different doctors, including two orthopedic surgeons, that I would have to get another surgery in order to get the bones to heal.  That a procedure would have to occur where the bones were pushed against each other. I was told by a prominent surgeon in Santa Monica that they would have to remove the two bones, the two steel rods that were inside of my femur. So I have two steel rods inside my femur. One that goes down this way and one that goes up this way that are connected and fortunately, I cannot feel them because they’re inside of the femur, which is actually a nice way to connect two bones. I was told that we would have to pull those out and then put a steel rod down the side of my leg with a whole bunch of screws all the way down. At the time, I was slowly improving my functional status.

By the way, a week after coming out of the hospital and and the rehab center that I went to initially, I was in Gold’s Gym with my walker working out my upper body. And I resumed training lower body several weeks later doing what I could and I was also working with a physical therapist on physical therapy and it was all proceeding very slowly, largely because of the non-union.  But there was apparently some fibrous union occurring and there seems to be some question among the medical experts, whether having fibrous tissue connect two bones is a good thing or a bad thing?  One argument is that the fibrous tissue gets in the way and prevents bone from forming. The other argument is that fibrous tissue helps create a bridge that would then allow calcium and bone formation afterwards. And I talked to a number of prominent doctors, including one of the top physical therapists at USC and they had different opinions about this.

I was confident that one way or another I could get my body to heal. So I, after initially being out of my practice for several months and paying another chiropractor to take over, I was back using a crutch, hobbling around a bit, and I was slowly regaining. More functional status, though still had this gap on x-rays and was still had some weakness and discomfort and pain, though not the severe pain that I had for the first couple of months.  So what was I going to do? Well, I had already delved into the concept of osteoporosis by talking to some bone health experts in the past on the podcast, including Dr. Lani Simpson and several others. And I knew about a medication called Forteo, which is a anabolic osteoporosis bone drug. So there are basically two types of drugs that are prescribed frequently for patients with weak bones, with osteopenia or osteoporosis.

And those are number one, antiresorptive drugs. So those are drugs like the bisphosphonates, like Fosamax, Actonil, and Boniva. And these drugs block the loss of bone. So bone, like muscle is constantly being built and broken down. So let’s start with muscle. So throughout our lives we are continuously building muscle and breaking it down When we work out, even though most people think of working out as a way to build bone us, exercise weight training is actually a way to break down bone.  So we cause micro damage to bone fibers, uh, to uh, muscle fibers. And then the body rebuilds the muscles this time stronger and potentially bigger. And that’s how we create new muscle formation. So we need to break it down and then rebuild it so we have both things happening at the same time. And in bone we also have, even though we, it’s often thought that you have all the bone you’re going to have by the time you hit 30 and you just lose bone throughout the rest of your life. A similar thought occurs with respect to brain cells, and we know that’s not true with current research, so we’re continuously building bone. We have osteoblast cells that build new bone. We have osteoclast cells that break down bone, and we need both of these. Ideally, we need them to be in balance and at times we need to be building more bone and in other times we may need to break down some bone, but we need both of those to occur.  So the osteoclast cells the cells that break down bone, one of their jobs is they’re similar to the cleanup crew that comes in at night and cleans things up because under normal activities, you’re actually breaking down bone. A certain amount microscopically and the osteoclasts come in, clean up the broken bone, and then the osteoblast cells come in and build new bone.  And this is how we keep our bone strong, resilient, and healthy, and we need both of these to be occurring. The problem with bone loss as we get older is instead of being in balance, the osteoclasts are doing more work than the osteoblasts or doing less. So these antiresorptive drugs are basically lowering the osteoclasts activity.  So they’re stopping or reducing the body from breaking down bone. Now the problem with the these drugs is that you need to clean up crew. You end up with a lot of junky bone, so you end up with more bone. You will see your bone density. The amount of bone will increase over time. It’s not necessarily strong, resilient bone.

So anti-resorptive drugs, in my opinion, are not good drugs to use when you’re trying to heal a fracture that’s having trouble healing. Now normally fractures heal, especially if the two pieces of the bone are flush against each other. Facilitating the collagen and eventual bone formation that leads to healing of fractures.  But I knew I needed to give my body some help to heal, so I looked into Forteo, which is a drug that instead of blocking osteoclast formation, it increases osteoblast formation and. So it is considered a anabolic drug, bone drug rather than an osteoclastic drug, rather than an anti-resorptive drug, it acts on the osteoblasts.  And so this type of medication potentially could be more beneficial for healing a non-union. So I looked up research studies. I told the surgeon who had done my surgery about it, shared a bunch of studies with him ’cause he was unfamiliar with this drug and he agreed to gimme a prescription for it. It required taking a subcutaneous injection every day.

And I did this for five months. I also got a prescription for human growth hormone.  I looked into the research. I spoke to some of the top experts in the field of health and functional medicine and medicine that I know, and a number of them recommended that it would make sense to increase the growth hormone, to put my body in an environment in which it would do more healing, more anabolic activity. So the surgeon did not want to prescribe human growth hormone because there are some restrictions on prescribing it. But a friend of mine who was an integrative doctor was happy to write me a prescription.  I got it from a compounding pharmacy and I started taking an injection of two IUs five days a week for, I did that for five months as well. I also got a bone stimulator. And there are two types of bone stimulators [00:15:00] commonly prescribed for healing of fractures, especially for non-unions. One works with electrical current and the other works through ultrasound.  So the surgeon preferred the one that works through ultrasound, so I got that machine and. Th they recommended doing it once a day. I suggested I could do it three times a day, and they highly recommended I not do it three times a day. That twice a day could provide slightly better benefits than once a day, but three times a day, uh, might, um, be overstimulating the bone and not allowing it to heal.  So I started using this bone stimulator. I put it directly over the area where the non-union was, and I did it twice a day for 20 minutes.

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Of course I’ve always eaten very healthy and I’m, I was making sure I was getting plenty of quality protein, lots of good healthy phytonutrients, fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds, healthy fats like olive oil and avocados and nuts and seeds.  And I, um, increased supplements related to bone health.  So I’ve always been taking vitamin D and I always take vitamin D with KI monitor my vitamin D levels. I try to keep it around 60, but even taking 5,000 units of vitamin D uh, my vitamin D levels sometimes fall down to the mid forties, and then I take a little bit more and I get ’em back up to sixties and then they fall back again.

So I decided to just double my vitamin D during this period of time to 10,000 a day. The vitamin D I use contains vitamin K1 and also K2, specifically the MK4 version. So there’s a lot of controversy as to what’s the best form of vitamin K to maximize bone healing, as well as to make sure that you decrease the potential that calcium might end up in the arteries.

And it’s very popular these days to recommend the MK7 version. So there’s two versions of vitamin K2. There’s MK4 and there’s MK7. MK7 is very popular these days.  It has a longer half-life, so therefore it’s around longer in the bloodstream. This is often touted as a benefit, though we don’t know that being around longer in the bloodstream is a benefit after all. The key is that the vitamins get absorbed into the tissues, like into the bones and the other organs that are involved in creating bone and not just circulating in the bloodstream.  And the fact that it circulates longer in the bloodstream might reflect that it’s not getting absorbed as well into the tissues. But MK7 has gotten a lot of the headlines, but the research on increasing bone formation, is very strongly in support of the MK4 version of vitamin K. And in fact, in Japan, a much higher dosage is used and is used as a prescription for osteoporosis.

So in the United States, we commonly use 50 or a hundred micrograms of vitamin K two. In Japan, the dosage that’s been shown to be most effective is 45 milligrams, so that would be 45,000 micrograms, a much higher dosage. One of the major supplement companies, offers a vitamin K2, MK4 in 45 milligrams in two capsules, so I switched to that.  I also added calcium, magnesium, 250 milligrams twice a day, which is a modest dosage with meals. I used to take calcium. I stopped taking calcium because like everybody else, we got scared off that somehow calcium might be harmful to the heart. Um, the calcium story is pretty complicated. Look, calcium is an essential mineral.

We all need it, for many, many functions in the body, including bone formation. We know that when you get plaque in your arteries, that plaque can become calcified.  So there’s this thought that if you take calcium, that that will increase the calcification of the plaque in the arteries. That’s going to increase your heart disease.

There’s a number of problems with this. And just giving you a short, overview of the research. Originally there were a number of studies showing that, patients who either took supplements or had increased amounts of calcium in their diet, had a lower risk of heart disease, had a lower risk of hypertension, and that’s why they were doing studies on calcium and heart disease.  And then a few studies showed a slight increase. One of the problems with these studies is that these studies did not also include a reasonable amount of vitamin D, that it didn’t include vitamin D or they included 400 I use of vitamin D, whereas I just told you,  I’ve been taking 10,000.  I use a vitamin D and certainly most people would benefit from at least four or 5,000 IUs.

I use a vitamin D, but like with all vitamins, I highly recommend that you test your levels so you know where you’re at. Everybody absorbs vitamins at a different vitamins and minerals and phytonutrients at a different rate. There’s many factors. There’s genetic factors. There’s our GI tract, there’s absorption levels, et cetera.  So the best way is to measure your levels, supplement appropriately, and measure the levels again, to see if it’s working. Are you getting too much? Are you not getting enough? Maybe you need to take a different form. Maybe you need to take it in a different way so it’s better absorbed. But if you don’t test, you don’t know.  So don’t guess. I recommend testing. Now, look, I understand that testing can be expensive, and if you can’t afford it, I fully understand that, but if you can afford it, it’s better to test. So anyway, so my program,  for helping the my femur to heal included, as I just mentioned, 10,000 IU vitamin D. 45 milligrams, MK4 and even a little more ’cause there was some MK4 and M and there was some MK four, NK one in my, uh, both in my multi and in my vitamin D, and 250 milligrams of calcium with magnesium twice a day.  I also added two milligrams of boron twice per day.  For the first couple of months, I also added strontium citrate, which is controversial. Some people say that it takes the place of calcium. I wanted to make sure that we were creating bone and initially I was okay if it was strontium or calcium or whatever it was that we got some bone formation going.  So I added 500 milligrams of strontium citrate in the evening. It’s important if you use strontium, that you don’t take it with calcium, and once again, I know it’s controversial.  I also take a reasonable amount of magnesium and, and so I continued to take a reasonable amount of magnesium.  I take about five, 600 milligrams of magnesium and I use my bowel consistency as one of the ways to decide how much.  I also use several different forms of magnesium. I like mag citrate for overall absorption. It’s also a stool softener. I like mag. Three and eight for brain function. Mag glycinate’s better absorbed.  Mag taurate is beneficial for cardiovascular health and reducing poten or having a beneficial effect on heart rhythms.  Uh, it’s been recommended for AFIB by an electrophysiologist, integrative electrophysiologist that I interviewed. Okay, so, and, and then on top of that I took all my regular supplements and I made sure I took ’em twice a day. And I can’t really list them all here, but definitely includes Omega-3 fish oil. I take approximately six grams per day.  Each time I take my omega threes I also take 300 micrograms of tocotrienols. Which is a form of vitamin E that helps protect fats from, um, being oxidative damage also has many other benefits. I, I take curcumin as a natural anti-inflammatory. I add additional vitamin C, which also is very important for bone health. I take some specific brain formulas.  I use 20 milligrams of lycopene. I take a thousand milligrams of resveratrol. I use an NR formula. I’m using ULI and a, I am, uh, taking astaxanthin as an antioxidant. And, I’m using Arteriosil. I’m using nitric oxide boosters for cardiovascular health and, to enhance muscle building and growth because I do work out with heavy weights at the gym,  usually four days per week.  And I take branch chain amino acids. I use some creatine, which also has some benefits for brain health. And I’m using a plant peptide known as PeptiStrong to help build muscle.  I also like taking some coq 10 before I go to the gym.  It allows me to have,  stronger heart health. I feel good about my energy levels.

So those are the main supplements I took and after five months, my femur completely healed.  I went in for an x-ray and we now had bony union. It’s now a year and, and five months after the injury, the injury was Halloween, 2023. And, I have to say that I, my hip feels 100% totally strong. I’m able to do everything.  I have no discomfort, and I am, I’m doing squats, I’m doing heavy deadlifts. I’m doing everything I would want to do at the gym and other activity wise.

And so, um, I overcame my health crisis. But it was pretty scary for a while and I had a lot of skeptics, but I was confident that my body had the ability to heal.  And that I simply needed to give it some help to cross that gap. And looking back, I’m very glad that I decided not to have another surgery, not to have the rods pulled outside of my femur and having new hardware put in for one thing, those rods inside my femur. When they would be pulled out, would be leaving a space and there’s no way to fill it in.

You can’t just pour cement. And so likely my femur. So what happens with bones is that there’s the outside of the bone, the cortical bone, and in inside you have these cross hatch, uh, what are known as trabecula. It’s referred to as Trabecula bone, and that gives the bone a [00:31:00] lot of its resilience and strength.  So bone is not simply hollow. You, you might think of it as hollow, but it’s not. So when they put those metal rods in, that’s breaking through a lot of that trabecular bone. As long as they stay in there, they’re adding to the firmness and strength of the bone. But once you’re pulled out, you now have a gap that’s not gonna be filled in.

So that’s one reason I’m glad that I didn’t have the other surgery on top of the fact that it would’ve had to start all over, been back in severe pain, back on the walker, not able to function normally. And I was able to get my body to heal on its own. So I think if you can get your body to heal on its own, for the most part, I think you’re a lot better off.

I understand that surgeries can have remarkable benefits, and I did have surgery.  And I have other patients that get surgery that benefit from it. But [00:32:00] also I’ve seen plenty of patients who got surgeries that never did that much better. And I’m a big believer in allowing your body to heal itself.  Giving it the help it needs. Giving it the nutrients, giving it, a little extra help and then removing the obstacles that would, would make it hard for the body to heal. Make sure you’re getting proper nutrition.  Make sure you’re getting good sleep.  Make sure you’re giving your body the proper stimulus with the right forms of exercise.  Make sure you keep your mind right and. Manage your stress levels and try to keep a positive outlook, a positive mood. And one of the ways I do that is to make sure I am helping other people. That’s one of the things that makes me feel that I’m contributing and um, I always feel good about that. So that’s the major health crisis that I’ve had to overcome in my life, and I’m glad I put it behind me and, it was a challenge, but I did it.

So thank you for listening to my story and, um. Please, uh, subscribe to our YouTube channel and to our podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And if you enjoyed the podcast, please give me a five star ratings and review on Apple and Spotify and or Spotify. And if you want some help. Um, with bone healing, you’ve been given a diagnosis of osteoporosis or osteopenia, or you have some other health challenge, you’re having some gut issues.  You want to improve your cardiovascular health, and you want to use what’s available in the natural world in terms of modifying your diet, adding the right supplements, getting the right testing, give my Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office a call in Santa Monica at (310) 395-3111 and you can visit my website at drweitz.com and I look forward to speaking to everybody next week.

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Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast. For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcast or Spotify and give us a five star readings and review. As you may know. I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine.  If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and want to prevent chronic problems and want to promote longevity. Please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.

Dr. Kristine Burke discusses the Prevention and Reversal of Neurological Conditions with Dr. Ben Weitz.

[If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so more people will find The Rational Wellness Podcast. Also check out the video version on my WeitzChiro YouTube page.]

 

Podcast Highlights

In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, Dr. Ben Weitz talks with Dr. Christine Burke, a triple board-certified precision medicine physician, about the prevention and reversal of neurodegenerative conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease. Dr. Burke shares insights into her practice’s integration of conventional and functional medicine, particularly through a membership model. She discusses the various tests and markers used to detect early signs of cognitive decline, such as tau proteins and amyloid beta, and the importance of addressing root causes such as inflammation, toxins, and metabolic health. The conversation also covers effective lifestyle interventions, the role of ketogenic and other specialized diets, and the use of supplements and advanced therapeutic devices. Dr. Burke highlights her work with patients and shares successes in reversing cognitive decline. Additionally, she introduces her new brain health software, TruNeura, which aims to aid practitioners in treating neurodegenerative conditions.
00:26 Meet Dr. Christine Burke: Expert in Neurodegenerative Conditions
01:42 Integrating Conventional and Functional Medicine
04:12 Approaching Neurodegenerative Conditions
04:27 The Role of Cardiovascular Health in Neurodegeneration
07:33 Testing and Markers for Brain Health
08:40 Understanding Alzheimer’s Pathology
13:29 Comprehensive Testing for Neurodegenerative Diseases
15:28 The Importance of Oral and Gut Microbiome
16:41 Cardiovascular and Biotoxin Markers
20:46 Neurocognitive and Brain Imaging Tests
22:13 Product Spotlight: Apollo Wearable
23:46 Routine Brain Scans and MRI Insights
25:42 Introduction to Treatment
25:47 Ketogenic Diet for Cognitive Health
28:07 Lifestyle Factors: Sleep and Exercise
30:28 Addressing Environmental Toxins
36:11 Supplements for Cognitive Function
38:14 Innovative Brain Stimulation Devices
42:27 Success Stories and Case Studies
46:18 Research and Future Directions
50:13 How to Connect and Final Thoughts
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Dr. Kristine Burke is a triple board-certified Precision Medicine Physician, Author, Educator, and Researcher.  She is an expert on the prevention and reversal of chronic diseases such as dementia, diabetes, and heart disease. She is the Chief Medical Director and the CEO of Precision Medicine in Northern California. Her website is Truehealthcpm.com.

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz:  Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

Hello, rational Wellness podcasters. Today we will be speaking with Dr. Christine Burke about the prevention and reversal of neurodegenerative conditions like Alzheimer’s disease. Dr. Burke is a triple board certified, Precision Medicine physician.  She’s an entrepreneur, an author, an educator, and a researcher. She’s an expert in the reversal and prevention of chronic diseases such as dementia, diabetes, heart attacks, and she has a special focus on mold related illness. She’s the founder, chief Executive Medical Director of True Health Center for Precision Medicine in Northern California.  This is a multidisciplinary practice that delivers personalized primary care. With a proprietary data-driven wellness plan that has successfully prevented any heart attacks from occurring among our patients for over a decade. Dr. Burke also teaches precision and functional medicine for A4M and IFM.  Dr. Burke, thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Burke: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to chat with you.

Dr. Weitz: Sounds good. So I, I’d like to ask you about your practice. I was listening to you on another podcast, I think it was the Designs for Health One, and it sounds like you’ve been able to blend Integrative and conventional medicine into your practice by accepting insurance for some services, but also having a membership plan. And I, I’ve talked to a lot of doctors and this is always a tricky thing to do, to sort of have one foot in a conventional insurance-based system and have your other foot in functional medicine and make it all work out financially.

Dr. Burke: It is definitely a challenging thing to do and the, the insurance part makes it so there’s very specific criteria that you have to meet. The membership services have to specifically cover non-covered services and there’s uh, you know, a pretty high metric that we have to meet. To cover that we have a fair market value metric that we use, um, and that helps us to keep everything on the up and up.  Yeah. But what I like, what I like about that though, is that it allows people to use their health insurance to get what we believe is a higher level of global care of their overall health.

Dr. Weitz: Right. Um, around here, a lot of the physicians, conventional physicians especially are employing a concierge model.  So they accept insurance and then charge an annual fee on top of it.

Dr. Burke: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that’s where we started as well.

Dr. Weitz: And you decided to go to the membership model?  Why’d you switch to the membership model?

Dr. Burke: Well, there’s a lot of similarities between them really.  I think it, it would be actually pretty hard to kind of parse out the difference.  I think our, our membership now has more things that, more non-covered services that are included so that we can provide care the way we want to provide care, not the way that the insurance dictates we just focus on managing disease.

Dr. Weitz: Right. And most people don’t realize this who are lay persons, but it’s the insurance companies who really control the healthcare system, not doctors.

Dr. Burke: Yeah, yeah. That’s for sure.

Dr. Weitz: So let’s talk about how you approach neurodegenerative conditions.

Dr. Burke: So I think, you know, well first I can kind of tell you how I fell, how I fell into it, because it’s definitely a very challenging area of work. And I was doing, as you said in my bio, I was really focused on cardiovascular disease and cardiovascular prevention because of the half of our practice, that’s primary care.  And that half of people die from cardiovascular disease. So focusing on that is kind of the low hanging fruit of improving longevity and improving health span. And so I was doing all of this cardiovascular work and then. Started realizing that the vascular health was important to literally the health of every other system in the body, and so much more than just nutrient transport, oxygen transport.  And so I started digging into some of the root causes of cardiovascular disease that were also root causes for other chronic health conditions. And then I attended Dr. Bredesen’s, lecture that he gave at the IFM annual conference in 2016, and I was hooked. I have three family members that have,

Dr. Weitz:  Yeah, that that was the one in Los Angeles.  I attended that one too. That was great.

Dr. Burke: It was great. It was great. And so, you know, just after hearing that and then hearing the similarities to the work that I was already doing, and like I said, having three family members that had. Um, well at that point too, now, three that had succumbed to the disease, I just felt very motivated to learn more about it and to start bringing that into my practice.  And because of the mold work, I had already seen  improvements in cognitive health in younger people, you know, thirties, forties, fifties, that were being affected by the inflammation that’s generated from the mold exposure. So that was already a part of my paradigm. So it wasn’t a big leap for me. To really expand into the, into the rest of the protocol.

Dr. Weitz: I, I remember at that meeting I went up and talked to Dr. Bredesen afterwards and I organize this functional medicine, monthly meeting and we bring in speakers and I wanted to address Neurogenerative and I wasn’t able to get Dr. Bredesen to speak, so I called up the UCLA Alzheimer’s Center that he was associated with to see if maybe one of the other neurologists could come speak at our meeting.  And the woman who was running the program said, oh, Dr. Bredesen, well, I have to let you know that we don’t agree with anything that Dr. Bredesen says. And it’s amazing with the incredible work that he’s been doing and publishing, and yet the majority of the neurological world does not accept hardly any of it.

Dr. Burke: Yes, exactly. Well, disruptive thinkers are often met with hostility, so I, I kind of look at that as a badge of honor. If the in entirety of the existing system is hostile to what you’re proposing, you’re probably on the right track.

Dr. Weitz: That’s, that’s, that’s a good thought. Um, so. When it comes to testing, what are some of the tests you like to run?  And also in particular, are you running the new brain scan test that Dr. Bredesen is recommending, which is Ptau 217, GFAP, and Neurofilament Light.

Dr. Burke: Yes. So we are doing all of those and we’re doing those actually also in our primary care patients because the changes of Alzheimer’s in in particular, but neuro, these neurodegenerative diseases start 15 or 20 years before we have symptoms, and so we’re doing those tests.  The Ptau 217 particularly is screening in our primary care patients so that we can start to get a sense of whether or not the work we’re doing with them, the things that we’re doing or the things that they’re choosing not to do are leading them down a path that’s potentially injurious to their brain health.  So we’re using that here. 

Dr. Weitz: So what is that, what is that test in particular helping you to? 

Dr. Burke: So, I mean, I could talk about each of them. They each tell us a little bit of different information. Okay, sounds good. So the Ptau 217 is, P tau is phosphorylated Tau. So tau is a structural protein inside the axon.  So the connection between the neuron, the cell body, and then the dendrites which are wet, send the message to the next neuron. Right. So it’s the cabling, if you will, the electrical cabling. And so when, when we start to have this inflammatory process within the brain with the production of the amyloid beta, we also see what we call a hyper phosphorylation.  So extra phosphate groups being added to the tau that causes the tau to unravel. And then we see tangles of tau occur within the neurons. So the amyloid. Beta, which is what we’re used to hearing about in Alzheimer’s disease. Those plaques or aggregations of amyloid beta occur outside the cells and that tau tangles occur inside the cells.  So those are the two pathological findings of Alzheimer’s disease. So that’s what we find at autopsy shows as damage to the brain. There’s some significant caveats to that though, because we see people with Alzheimer’s who. On brain pathology do not have a lot of amyloid plaque. And we also see people who accumulate a lot of plaque and [00:10:00] don’t develop Alzheimer’s.  So this is where the multimodal theory of Alzheimer’s comes in. And I’m just speaking to this so that I can explain those tests a little bit better.

Dr. Weitz: Course. Sure. It also explains why, uh, one of the reasons why the drugs that block amyloid or remove amyloid have not been very successful.

Dr. Burke: Exactly. So the amyloid at its core, if you will, is really a protective sav that the brain is making to co cover injured areas of the brain.  And it becomes problematic when there’s too much. And the analogy I often use with patients is, you know, if you get a hole in your drywall, you can spackle it and sand it and paint it, and it can, and it can look pretty good. But if you get a whole bunch of holes and you’re spackling all over, then it’s going to start to look unruly with all these patch marks everywhere. And that’s kind of what’s happening with amyloid in the brain. So what we, what we are focusing on is what [00:11:00] are the things that are driving the need for the amyloid production? And it’s all the things that we typically think about in functional medicine, inflammation, environmental toxins, um, biological toxins, metabolic health, all of these things, the microbiome health. So now when we’re looking at these markers, so the PT tells us that we’ve had damage to the tau protein that’s driven by all of those things I just mentioned. We can also look at something called the amyloid beta 42:40 ratio. So as plaque, amyloid plaque is accumulating in the brain, more of the Amyloid beta42 gets applied to the plaque, so there’s less in the blood. So that ratio falls. I don’t know why, just between you and me, why they didn’t flip the ratio so that a high number was bad like it is in almost everything else. But in this case, it’s the lower number that’s bad. So the ratio falls as more amyloid is accumulating in the brain. So that can give us a sense of the amyloid progression, as does the p tau, because there’s more p tal as there’s more amyloid. So those tell us that this process is happening. And then you have the neurofilament light, which is also a structural protein inside the neuron in the in the axons. So that tells us that there’s been damage to the structural components, but we can see elevation of neurofilament light and things like concussion or head injury.

So it’s a very non-specific marker of injury in the brain. And we actually do use it to follow people post-concussion too, so that we see that healing is happening. And then the GAP that stands for glial fibrillary acidic protein, which is a mouthful. So thank goodness for the acronym. Um, so GAP is telling us about activation of the microglia.  And the microglia are the immune cells within the [00:13:00] brain that become activated from all of those inflammatory insults and inputs. And then when they’re activated, they generate inflammatory cytokines, and then that sets up the situation for the inflammation, the damage, the need for amyloid, et cetera, et cetera.

Dr. Weitz: Cool. So what other tests do you like to run? Dr. Bredesen has his panel. Do you run a similar panel to what he recommends? 

Dr. Burke: We do run a similar panel. We are looking at inputs of, um, metabolic inflammation, so that’s going to be blood sugar and fasting insulin levels and inflammatory markers like HsCRP. And um, we’re looking at the, the components that we need to counter inflammation, like Omega-3 levels and fatty C15 levels pento NOIC acid, which is a cell, also a cell membrane component and essential fatty acid that makes the cells fragile if we’re deficient in it with, which almost everyone that I test is deficient in that.

Dr. Weitz: Well, that’s interesting. So you do a C15 test. I’m not familiar with that.  I just learned something.

Dr. Burke: It’s part, it’s part of a panel. And I don’t know if you know, if, if we can talk about proprietary names, but it’s part Sure,

Dr. Weitz: yeah.

Dr. Burke: Yeah, we can. So it’s, it’s actually included in the NutraEval by Genova.

Dr. Weitz:  Okay. So

Dr. Burke: part of the fatty acid, um, analysis there. And then I think there might be also another.  Um, cell membrane, fatty acid analysis panel that, um, I don’t know the name of it. It’s not one that I use, but I know it exists.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, that we typically will use vibrant and, and they have a fatty acid analysis, but I don’t believe it includes the C 15.

Dr. Burke: Yeah, I’m not sure if it does or not either, but that’s been a really interesting addition.  ’cause you know, I mean, that’s the first. Newly discovered essential fatty acid in like 80 or 90 years. So that’s been really

Dr. Weitz: interesting. Well, we, we, we, we [00:15:00] had the, uh, omega seven, but that sort of fizzled.

Dr. Burke: Exactly. Um, then we’re gonna be looking at markers of, um, the nutrient sufficiency and mitochondrial health.  Things like Coq10 for example. Uh, with alpha lipoic acid, looking at all of the, all of the normal n you know, the normal nutrients that we would be thinking about in terms of like a multivitamin, multi mineral. And then I. Looking at the microbiome and the composition of not only the gut microbiome, but also the oral microbiome, because those are both very important in the health of the brain.

Dr. Weitz: Interesting. So do you actually measure the oral microbiome?

Dr. Burke: Yes, we do actually. Mm-hmm. We use. Which,

Dr. Weitz: which is your preferred test for that?

Dr. Burke: Um, we’re using a test, uh, from oral DNA, called MyPerioPath.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Burke: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Weitz: Cool. Yep.

Dr. Burke: We used the [00:16:00] HR five test for a while and then, um, that company unfortunately went out of business and so we’re using the MyPerioPath test, which is excellent.  That’s a very good test. So we know in the oral microbiome that the presence of porphyromonas gingivalis a specific species, that that has a very high correlation with Alzheimer’s and dementia. So if that bacterium is present, then we know that we have a higher risk factor, and then we need to take steps to help eradicate that from the oral microbiome.

Dr. Weitz: In fact work specifically done by our friend, Dr. Ari Vojdani. Mm-hmm. I know he’s published on that.

Dr. Burke: Mm-hmm. Exactly, exactly. And then we’ve got, of course, our cardiovascular markers. So the cholesterol and the lipid particle profiles, the advanced lipid profile. Looking at markers of vascular inflammation like the LPP eight two and Myelo peroxidase, which tell us specifically about [00:17:00] inflammation in the blood vessel wall and the risk of plaque rupture, for example.  We also want to look at. I use a test called the A DMA and from Cleveland Heart Labs, and that’s a marker of endothelial function and the production of nitric oxide, which we know is important for arterial elasticity and that kind of flexibility of the arteries. And, uh, you’re testing my memory here. What am I missing?  Um, oh, the biotoxins, biome and biotoxins. So we talked about the biome piece, but then we have the biologic toxins and chronic infections, like chronic viral infections, for example, or chronic intracellular bacterial infections. Just. You know, I, I, I tell patients it’s hitchhikers that have, um, gained access to our body and then just hang out and stay with us.  And sometimes they, they just are nicely hidden and other times they’re active in kind of vandals and creating inflammation in the system. And so we need to do something to help the immune system be able to get those under control.

Dr. Weitz: Um, are you measuring all these things in your initial, really?

Wow. Mm-hmm. That’s quite a bit.

Dr. Burke: Yeah, it’s a lot. It’s hundreds of markers because in neurodegenerative disease, as you well know, time is your enemy. So time is brain loss. Time is ongoing. Tissue injury. And so unlike other conditions where we may have a little bit more luxury of time to unravel the root causes in cognitive decline, specifically, time is really of the essence and the more data that we have to understand what’s driving that neurodegeneration.  The more ways that we can intervene to try to help that person either have the, you know, have the things that they need, like the nutrients and the mitochondrial support, hormonal and trophic support, for example. I didn’t talk about that yet, but you know, obviously we’re measuring all of the hormones and then the chemical toxins, like the heavy [00:19:00] metals and um, you know, VOCs and BPA, things like that. 

Dr. Weitz: What’s your favorite toxin screen?

Dr. Burke: I like, I use the US Biotech and, um, they’ve teamed up with realtime labs now to offer that environmental profile that can be done at the same time. You’re doing mycotoxin testing. But Mosaic also has a really good chemical toxin, uh, analysis as well.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, yeah. We use a total tox burden from Vibrant. Mm-hmm. They offer a combination, heavy metals, environmental, toxins, and mycotoxins.

Dr. Burke: Mm-hmm. Yep. Exactly. ’cause then you’re getting the whole picture.

Dr. Weitz: Right. Cool. Um, any, any other testing? I cut you off there.

Dr. Burke: No, no, that’s okay.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah.

Dr. Burke: Um, so heavy metals, super important.  Mercury lead, um, arsenic, cadmium are the, and,

Dr. Weitz: and are you doing, are you doing urine for those, right?

Dr. Burke: We are doing blood and or urine for those.

Dr. Weitz: Oh,

Dr. Burke: okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Whole blood analysis is done both in the Nutra valve and also by Quicksilver Scientific. And then, um, urine testing can be used if you need to get, you know, if you need additional testing on that.  But we’ve actually had pretty good results using the whole blood analysis. You know, I mean, you, we could have a whole conversation on the pros and cons of different ways of looking at, at heavy metals and they all have their pros and cons, but we’ve had good success with, um, using the blood analysis.

Dr. Weitz:  Good. Good, good, good. It’s nice to run like one panel, like the NRA valve that includes, uh, all that, that helps.

Dr. Burke: Mm-hmm. It sure

Dr. Weitz: does. Uh, what neurocognitive tests do you like to run?

Dr. Burke: Uh, that’s an, a really interesting question right now. So we’re using the moca, the Montreal Cognitive Assessment, right. [00:21:00] And CNS vital signs, uh, in the research study.  And we’ve been using those in our clinical practice as well for, uh, quite a long time. And then we just recently started using View Mind, which is a VR headset that measures, um, eye movement and eye tracking, and is able to identify specific pathways within the brain that are. You know, better or poorer functioning, which has been really interesting.

We’re just interesting getting going with that. But it has the ability, I think, to, well, first of all it’s, it’s easier to administer, so it’s easier on the patients, and it also doesn’t have a ceiling. So when we’re working with high functioning patients, or for example, our patients in our primary care program that have, um, abnormal or concerning, uh, blood-brain biomarker testing, we can utilize this [00:22:00] test where other tests may be normal, and then we can really see where we have any, you know, any missteps and then we can follow that over time.

Dr. Weitz: Cool. Yeah, I gotta look into that. That’s a new one for me.

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Dr. Weitz:  Do you run any routine brain scans or MRIs?

Dr. Burke: We do. We use the NeuroQuant MRI.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Burke: So that we can see the volumetrics of the different [00:24:00] brain areas, and then that way you can see like how, what’s the relative volume of the hippocampus?  For example, the thalamus is often, um, relatively swollen, especially in mold exposure. And so that’s an interesting thing too. Fall. Interesting.

Dr. Weitz: So the mm-hmm. Thalamus is swollen in cases of mold toxicity.

Dr. Burke: That’s something that, uh, Dr. Richie Shoemaker had, uh, published about in looking at the specific findings that you commonly see in water damaged building exposure in the NeuroQuant, it’s challenging.  To follow that over time. I mean, it’s still a relatively new technology. We’re still learning how, how the brain changes. You’ve got the confounders of, you know, if something looks normal and then on subsequent testing, now it looks atrophied. Is it really atrophied? Or did we reduce swelling because we reduced inflammation?  So hopefully over time, and this is an area where we need additional research and utilizing the, uh, the brain biomarkers could help us to understand like, are we seeing changes in the inflammatory markers at the same time that we’re seeing changes in volume? And so it’s very, it’s very, very interesting, the whole correlation between what you see happening in the brain structurally, and then what you see happening in the patient functionally.

Dr. Weitz: I know Dr. Bredesen has talked about seeing, uh, a reversal of brain shrinkage in some of the patients that he’s been able to reverse their Alzheimer’s.

Dr. Burke: Mm-hmm. Yep. Absolutely.

Dr. Weitz: Cool. Um, so let’s get into treatment. Let’s start with diet. Uh, are you recommending a ketogenic diet or some version of that?

Dr. Burke: Yeah, so we’re using the ketogenic diet therapeutically.  You know, these are people that are presenting with cognitive decline, so they [00:26:00] already have some brain injury. We know that the ketogenic diet helps to stimulate the brain healing process, and we know that ketones are an efficient fuel source for the brain when there may be some relative insulin resistance within the brain.  Um, and also the ketogenic diet dramatically lowers blood sugars. And we know that glucose is one of the things that the brain is not able to regulate. So glucose just freely passes into the brain. So the concentration in the blood is reflected in the concentration in the brain. And so hyperglycemia is, that’s part of the reason that hyperglycemia is so damaging to the brain tissue.  So we use the, we use the ketogenic diet. We’re just trying to achieve nutritional ketosis. So. You know, a level above one, um, on blood ketone testing. And we can sometimes see some really, i, uh, immediate improvements in people. When you shift the fuel [00:27:00] source that the brain has available,

Dr. Weitz: have you, are you using the keto flex diet that Dr. Bredesen has pioneered?

Dr. Burke: Mm-hmm. Yes, we do. We do follow the Keto Flex plan.

Dr. Weitz: Are you having them use the prepared meals?

Dr. Burke: You know, some of the patients use the prepared meals. Um, most of them, I, you know, I have a really great team of health coaches and dieticians, and most of the time the team is just helping to instruct them how to cook on their own so that they can take care of it that way.

But yeah, the meals can be a really useful thing, especially in, you know, maybe a, a family where. You know, one person is the one affected with Alzheimer’s or significant cognitive decline, but the, but the spouse has also been living in the same living environment and may struggle a little, even though any cognitive challenges they may have may be less apparent.

So Right. When you’re, when you have two people [00:28:00] that are struggling to make all of these changes, that can be really useful to have something that can simplify it, like having the meal delivery.

Dr. Weitz: What are some of the other lifestyle factors that you find are important, such as exercise, sleep, et cetera?

Dr. Burke: All of them.  So sleep is particularly important in cognitive decline. Reversal, of course, because it’s during sleep that the brain actually rinses itself of the metabolic waste, some of the toxins that have been accumulated and does that process, and particularly during deep sleep. So augmenting deep sleep, improving the total number of hours of sleep.

Sleep. Those are, um, very important. Of course, assessing for, um, sleep disorder, breathing, making sure the brain’s getting oxygen during the night. That’s really important and you’d be surprised at how many people have hidden sleep apnea. It’s quite a few. So we use tracking, you know, we use [00:29:00] wearable tracking so that we can monitor these things.

And then with exercise. Exercise, I mean it’s important for all the myriad of reasons that we know, but particularly in brain health exercise specifically. Um, hit and weight training are really powerful stimulants of the production of BDNF Brain Drive neurotrophic factor, which is what tells the brain to grow and maintain.

The connections. And so BDNF production is a super important thing that we’re after with the exercise program. And then, you know, oxygen delivery, increasing mitochondrial number and density so that we can be more energy production efficient, like just a lot of reasons and muscle mass itself. As a reservoir for health.

So we work really hard as we’re using the ketogenic diet to also help people maintain and hopefully improve their muscle mass, which is always [00:30:00] gratifying to see. And then, what am I missing? Oh, connection. Okay. So connection, community, um, having those important outside relationships and then reflection.

Meditative, um, meditative time, having a mindfulness practice. These are things that we also know from the research have been shown to literally change brain structure.

Dr. Weitz: Um. Let’s go a little more into toxins. Um, we, you mentioned heavy metals, environmental, toxins, mycotoxins. Recently we’ve heard in the news about microplastics that accumulate in the brain.  Uh, yes, we have. What are some of the strategies we have and, and in particular, what can we do about microplastics?

Dr. Burke: Yeah, that’s a really good question. So, always in environmental medicine, our first and most [00:31:00] powerful intervention is to reduce exposure. So that’s the first place to begin. So, you know, limiting the number of plastics that we’re using, storing things in glass containers, never ever, ever microwaving or heating anything in plastic.  Those are things we can do to help reduce that exposure. Not, you know, not drinking water from plastic bottles or plastic containers. Just all of these things that we have to be mindful of so that we can reduce exposure through those ways. And then paying attention to all of the things we surround ourselves.  In our homes, our personal care products, you know, what is the, the environmental working group, um, I think it was 86 chemicals that the average woman puts on her body every day. And at first you think, no, that’s not possible. And then you think about your shampoo and your soap and your conditioner and other hair products and your toothpaste, and, and

Dr. Weitz: [00:32:00] each one of those products can easily have a list of 20 different ingredients.

Dr. Burke: Exactly, exactly. So being aware of that and using the tools that are out there, um, like, you know, through the environmental working group, for example, to help identify products that are cleaner for us to use. And the same is true for our household cleaning products. And, you know, candles are one of the worst offenders of spewing phthalates into our, into our home environments.  Oftentimes, our indoor air quality is worse than our outdoor air

Dr. Weitz: quality. Are there safe candles to use?

Dr. Burke: There are some that use essential oils. Um, soy-based candles that don’t have paraffin are a little bit better. Okay.

Dr. Weitz: So there

Dr. Burke: definitely are options out there if you’re a candle lover. Um, and then.  Think, oh, our food is another [00:33:00] source of toxins. Of course. Yeah. So eating organic whenever possible, following the environmental working groups list, the Dirty Dozen, the Clean 15, as a way of trying to maximize the avoidance of the foods that are the most contaminated, and then not maybe spending extra money on organic where it has a low amount of contamination and then processed foods.

Full of, um, different chemicals and emulsifiers and those, those filler ingredients often have a really dramatic effect on our gut microbiome and reducing the mucin layer, which is part of the protective barrier of the gut lining. And when that protective barrier is breached or it’s worn down, then that’s when more things get access into the body, including the microplastics.  So having that thick, dense barrier from a healthy gut microbiome is part of [00:34:00] keeping those microplastics out of our circulation,

Dr. Weitz: not having a leaky gut. ’cause leaky gut is often associated with leaky brain.

Dr. Burke: Absolutely. Absolutely. Very, very high correlation of leaky gut and leaky brain, and the transport of toxins from the gut through the enteric nervous system to the brain.

Dr. Weitz: Right. Um, and then how do we get rid of these toxins once we have them in us?

Dr. Burke: So the process of getting rid of them is actually something that the body already comes equipped to do. That’s the detoxification process. And you know, in, in physiology it’s literally bio transformation. So most of these things, most of these chemicals and toxins that we’ve been talking about are not water soluble.  Me, you know, it’s kinda like the oil and water piece, right? And so we have to transform them. The liver has to transform them from something that is only soluble in an [00:35:00] oily or lipid environment, into something that’s water soluble. And that process requires an enormous amount of nutrients. And then also a large number of amino acids.

And one of those important ones is glutathione. So glutathione is one of our very powerful antioxidants and detox promoters. It’s certainly not the only one and not the only important one, but it’s very highly involved in the elimination of metals and some of these other, uh, chemical environmental toxins that we’ve been talking about.

So. Eating things like the cruciferous vegetables that are very high in a compound called Sulforaphane that promotes our natural production of glutathione and helps us to get rid of those toxins. We also use a lot of binders. I. So if we’ve identified a high amount of, um, mycotoxins, which are the toxins produced by molds, if we’ve identified a high amount of mycotoxins, then we’ll use, you know, charcoal and clay binders and maybe, [00:36:00] you know, chlorella to help bind to those toxins in the gut so that they don’t get reabsorbed back into the circulation and we can eliminate them with the poop.

Dr. Weitz: Cool. What are some of your favorite supplements for supporting cognitive function?

Dr. Burke: You know, that’s always a tricky question because the, you know, neuro neurotropics are a kind of a big deal. They’re a really hot market. But to my mind it’s, it’s a bit like green pharmacy because you’re trying Oh, sure.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. We don’t want to just jump there right away. The answer is just take these supplements and forget about everything else. Wow. Yeah. If you’re not doing everything else, if you’re not making sure you’re. Nervous system, your cardiovascular system, your endocrine system. If everything else is in balanced and you’re not getting rid of toxins and you don’t have neurotrophic factors, you don’t have the basic nutrients.  And just [00:37:00] taking a brain supplement is definitely not the answer. This would just be like the icing on the cake.

Dr. Burke: Exactly. Yeah. They’re kind of the icing on, on the cake. And when you’re doing, you know, when you’re doing all of those things that you just beautifully listed off, there’s less of a need for tho for for for them as well.  So I don’t actually tend to use a lot of neurotropic support. I use a lot of ingredients that support that. So things like lion’s mane and, um, you know, nicotinamide riboside to promote mitochondrial a TP production and, um, uh, CDP choline, for example, to augment the choline in the brain, which is so important.  So we definitely use a lot of those ingredients, but I don’t necessarily have a favorite combination product yet. Nothing, nothing has risen to the.

Dr. Weitz:  Kat Toups told me she really likes the Brain Vital from Designs for Health. So I’ve been using that one a lot.

Dr. Burke: Yeah, that one is a really good one. That’s a nice formula. Yeah, she does like that a lot.

Dr. Weitz: Um, what about some of the devices that can potentially stimulate the brain that may use light or electricity or magnets or.

Dr. Burke: Oh my gosh. Right. We, we spend so much time in medicine, and particularly I think even more so sometimes in precision and functional medicine, focusing on the biochemistry because it’s so, it’s so complex and it’s so important. But then there’s this whole other realm of the energetics of medicine, the physics of medicine, if you will, that’s really just starting to come into its own.  I mean, and we have a lot of really promising therapies. But again, I think that so much of that is like what you just said. You can’t just [00:39:00] do the energetics. If you aren’t also doing all the things that you need to do to create an environment in which the brain can heal and be healthy. But some of the things that, um, are amazing, uh, hyperbarics definitely helpful.  Unfortunately expensive and sometimes hard to to access, so that makes it a little bit more challenging, but definitely very beneficial for cognitive health.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, it’s time consuming. You typically have to go 20 or 40 times.

Dr. Burke: Exactly right. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a big time commitment and a big financial commitment, but an effective one when it can be done.  And then the red light therapies and the, um, infrared therapies are really looking promising. That’s a very much a growing area with a very robust amount of research that’s coming out around that.

Dr. Weitz: Is there a particular product or products that you have found helpful? [00:40:00]

Dr. Burke: So I’ve used several of those products and they all seem to have benefit in their own ways.  And so it’s hard. It’s hard to pick an absolute winner. So for example, we’ve used the origin. Device, which is a combination of red light and a panel that comes across the face, and then there’s auditory stimulation to entrain the brain into gamma waves, which is the healing state. And we’ve had some really interesting results with that.  We’ve even, um, you know, cat that you brought up, Katz even had a couple of her patients have improvement in their vision and problems that they were having with the retinas, which has been really fascinating. We’ve also used, um, the neuron, uh, neuro radiant helmet. And that is very interesting. That can be, um, personalized even to QEEG findings, which we haven’t used in our practice, [00:41:00] but that’s one of the things that it can be used for.  So there’s a lot to be learned there. And then the newest device that we’ve incorporated is. Sarah Thrive, and that’s a really interesting concept because it’s a combination of a headband that has the infrared light in four different wavelengths and also the red light therapy, and then a, an abdominal panel with red light therapy that helps to address inflammation in the gut.

And improve the gut microbiome so that we have that anti-inflammatory effect and the immune modulation that we want because we know how important that gut brain axis is. So I’m really excited to be utilizing that one, and they’re all coming out with such, such great research. And then the, the last thing, which isn’t really a device, but more of a system, is that we also sometimes will use neural retraining.

Um, one that we really like a lot that, uh, we utilize is the Gupta program Just [00:42:00] reteaching the, the brain, how to not be hyper responsive. To the, the toxins or to the insults that have stimulated this inflammatory response because that becomes part of that whole cell danger cycle where the body responds in a certain danger pattern and it shuts down important pathways and it spews out certain cytokines and then we end up in a cycle that we can’t get out of to heal.

Dr. Weitz: Great. Um, tell us about some cases where you’ve had some success.

Dr. Burke: Yeah. Oh my gosh. There’s a lot of those. Not all of them are successful because this is a lot of work for the patient and their family. Sure. Feel free

Dr. Weitz: to tell us about whatever cases you want.

Dr. Burke: Yeah, yeah. No, no, there’s no, I just want, I just wanted that to be like a disclaimer, like it’s not all sunshine and roses sometimes, right?  No, absolutely.

Dr. Weitz: It is a very difficult, challenging, exactly.

Dr. Burke: Exactly. But yeah, when, I mean, when it’s, um, you know, when it, sometimes it feels like a [00:43:00] miracle. Like we have, um, a patient who had mild cognitive impairment. A woman in her sixties, she was a, a yoga instructor. She’d lost the ability to remember where she was in the yoga sequence or she remember.  If she’d already had them do both the right side and the left side, she was having trouble remembering her right from her left, like really impactful things to something, right? Teaching yoga is the love of her life. And so, um, anyway, we, we worked with her and um, she was able to get all the way back to normal AMCA of 28.  And she feels like she has her old self back. So that was a really exciting one.

Dr. Weitz: That’s great. So the moca score went from what to what?

Dr. Burke: 2022 to 20?

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Burke: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Weitz: That’s great. And 30 is like perfect. Normal. Normal,

Dr. Burke: yeah. Yeah. 27 to 30 is normal. So, yeah, that’s the normal range. That was really exciting. [00:44:00] And then, um, she actually just got herself a new car and got the, the license plate says MCI two, normal NMLI love it.

Dr. Weitz: That’s great.

Dr. Burke: So that was a really exciting one. And then another one that we’ve just had recently, uh, was a really young, uh, affected patient in his early fifties, 53-year-old. And he had been living in an extraordinarily moldy environment and not realizing that it was impacting him because the only thing that was affected was his cognitive health and his brain.  His, his brain just wasn’t working anymore. Um, so he had almost complete idio motor apraxia where he could not hear a verbal instruction and then create that motor action. So asking him to raise an index finger, he couldn’t do it. He would just look at his hands. This is a 53-year-old Wow. Um, he couldn’t touch his nose and then touch my finger because he couldn’t make his body do that.

He could [00:45:00] hear it, he could understand it when he heard it, but he couldn’t translate it into action. And in just three months. He went from a moca of seven, which is severe Alzheimer’s Wow. To a moca of 12, and was able to actually do those things. There was still discoordination and, and it wasn’t perfect, but he could do it.

That was amazing. That felt like a miracle. And then my, you know, I think some of my favorite ones are when people come in. And they’re pretty severely, or pretty significantly affected. And you know, that look the blank that people get when they’re affected with Alzheimer’s, where it’s like just, you can’t really connect with the spark or the energy that is that person.

And there’s just a blankness that’s there. You can’t, you can’t get there. We’ve had. A couple of people have that wake up where you, you, after six months or eight months, it’s not quick, but after a period [00:46:00] of time of working with them that you come in for a visit and you walk in the room and you lock eyes and you feel the electricity of that connection.  And you know that now that that person is back. And that to me, like giving that gift to a family, like there’s just nothing better than that.

Dr. Weitz: That’s so great and contrast that unfortunately with all the latest medications for which, you know, all this research and billions and billions of dollars spent, and there’s not one case where a medication has been able to reverse cognitive decline and yet PR practitioners like yourself are seeing these great results and, um, I just can’t wait for the time when the, uh, neurological community finally embraces the fact that Dr. Bredeson’s program and a functional medicine approach can, in some cases actually reverse this, uh, [00:47:00] horrific condition.

Dr. Burke: Yeah, absolutely.  And you know, he just published in August the, um, follow up, the long-term follow up and the sustained improvements, because that’s the other piece that’s important, right? Like while it’s amazing and definitely nearly a miracle that we can reverse it and help people to get improvement, it’s even more important and amazing that that can be sustained, which I think just goes to the.  The body of proof that this is changing the process of the disease.

Dr. Weitz: And, and despite his study, this follow-up study, um, another study that was published, um, if you go to the Alzheimer’s Society website or any of these websites, they’ll say that Bredesen’s program’s completely unproven.

Dr. Burke: I know and I don’t know how they can continue saying that with all of the research that’s been published, and hopefully when we publish the current [00:48:00] randomized controlled trial, we’ll be able to put an end to that.

Dr. Weitz: But I think they’ll start to recognize that there’s this model of a drug. Uh, of a, of what is constitutes a scientific study that’s valid, which is this randomized placebo controlled, um, trial that it was designed to test drugs and is very difficult when you’re trying to test a diet and lifestyle type of program.  It’s not really that applicable to control things in quite that way and have a placebo group. But, uh, unless you have that model trial, that randomized control trial, everything else is considered invalid.

Dr. Burke: Right. And that’s why we’ve undertaken the randomized controlled trial Exactly. To exactly to your point.  And it is, it has been enormously challenging.

Dr. Weitz: Right? Yeah.

Dr. Burke: Enormously challenging. But I mean [00:49:00] our, you know, we’re halfway through now. And our data so far is for the

Dr. Weitz: listeners, you’re participating in this research study that Dr. Del Breen is undertaken and he has six different centers around the country that are participating in this, right?

Dr. Burke: Right, yep. There are six, uh, sites across the country and, and True Health Center for Precision Medicine is one of them,

Dr. Weitz: and patients are randomized.

Dr. Burke: Uh huh. Yep. So they’re randomized to either receive the precision medicine intervention or standard of care, which for early cognitive impairment is observation.

Dr. Weitz: Right? So.

Dr. Burke: You know, li modest lifestyle improvement address any factors like B12 deficiency or frank hypothyroidism or sleep apnea that may be contributing. But, but beyond those things, it’s, it’s observation until it progresses to the point that warrants. A drug intervention,

Dr. Weitz: I’d be willing to [00:50:00] bet that most neurologists are not even addressing those things.

Dr. Burke: I’ll just leave that supposition out there.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. So, Dr. Burke, can you tell listeners about how they can find out about your center or, and connect with you or find out about the programs you offer?

Dr. Burke: Yeah, so there’s a couple of different ways.  We are True Health Center for precision medicine, as I said, and our website is true health.  cpm.com and you can see on our website the various things that we do. You could, um, book a discovery call if you’re interested in working with us. We do only work with people in California because that’s where our licensure is. And then if you’re a practitioner and you’re looking to bring brain health to your own [00:51:00] patients and you want to expand that.  I actually have a company that we’re, that we’ve just launched called TruNeura.com, T-R-U-N-E-U-R-A.com, and that is a brain health software program that’s designed to help both the patient and the practitioner to be more successful at doing this work. So it integrates wearable data. Laboratory data, it organizes it into the functional medicine framework and the subsets of root cause that we’ve talked about in our conversation so that we can see it highlight, so that we can target the things that are the most out of balance for that individual patient.

Dr. Weitz: That’s great. That sounds very exciting.

Dr. Burke: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’m really excited about it.

Dr. Weitz: Thank you so much.

Dr. Burke: Absolutely my pleasure.

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Dr. Weitz: Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast. For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcast or Spotify and give us a five star ratings and review.  As you may know, I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine. If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and want to prevent chronic problems and wanna promote longevity, please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.

Dr. Aly Cohen discusses How to Protect Yourself from Toxic Chemicals with Dr. Ben Weitz.

[If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so more people will find The Rational Wellness Podcast. Also check out the video version on my WeitzChiro YouTube page.]

 

Podcast Highlights

The Impact of Everyday Toxins with Dr. Aly Cohen
In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, host Dr. Ben Weitz discusses the dangers of everyday toxins with Dr. Aly Cohen, founder and medical director of Integrative Rheumatology Associates and The Smart Human. Dr. Cohen shares her personal journey, which was catalyzed by her pet retriever’s illness, leading her to explore how environmental toxins affect both pets and humans. They delve into specific toxins such as BPA and perfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS), their effects on the immune system, and methods to reduce exposure, including dietary choices and lifestyle adjustments. Dr. Cohen introduces her ‘Four A’s’ strategy to assess, avoid, swap, and add healthy practices, offering practical solutions for managing and mitigating these toxins in everyday life.
00:00 Introduction to the Rational Wellness Podcast
00:29 Meet Dr. Ailey Cohen: Expert on Toxins
01:50 The Story of Truxton: A Personal Journey
03:54 Uncovering the Dangers of Everyday Chemicals
07:54 Practical Solutions for Reducing Toxin Exposure
11:08 The Science Behind Toxins and Autoimmune Diseases
18:17 Water Quality and Food Choices
21:34 Personal Care Products and Household Cleaners
22:34 Introducing the Apollo Wearable
23:27 Sleep and Focus Benefits
24:07 Impact of Toxins on Autoimmune Conditions
25:01 The Four A’s of Reducing Toxins
27:16 Immune Disrupting Chemicals
30:59 Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals
32:41 Detox Strategies and Supplements
38:45 Mediterranean Diet and Quality Food
41:27 Conclusion and Resources
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Dr. Aly Cohen is an Integrative Rheumatologist and the Founder & Medical Director of Integrative Associates and also the Founder and Medical Director of The Smart Human LLC. She is a Co-Editor and contributor to Integrative Environmental Medicine, Co-author of Non-Toxic: Guide to Living Healthy in a Chemical World, and the new book, Detoxify: The Everyday Toxins Harming Your Immune system and How to Defend Against Them.  Her websites are  AlyCohenMD.com  and TheSmartHuman.com

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz:  Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, dr whites.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

Hello, rational wellness followers. Today our topic is toxins, how everyday toxins are harming us, and what we can do about it with Dr. Aly Cohen. Dr. Aly Cohen is the founder and Medical Director of Integrative Rheumatology Associates. She’s the founder and medical director of the Smart Human.  She’s the co-editor of Integrative Environmental Medicine. She’s the co-author of Non-Toxic Guide to Healthy To Living Healthy in a Chemical World, and she’s also the author of Detoxify the Everyday toxins harming your immune system and how to defend against them, which should be published by the time this episode is released.

Dr. Cohen: So, yeah, I’ll hold it up. Even though you didn’t get yours in the mail, I’ll just show your audience in case they’re interested.

Dr. Weitz: Oh, okay. A little grapefruit on the cover there.

Dr. Cohen: No, actually it’s a lemon, so,

Dr. Weitz: oh, it’s a lemon

Dr. Cohen: yellow. Just to kind of stay with the theme, you see?

Dr. Weitz: Oh, okay. Lemon, help us detoxify.

Dr. Cohen: You know, it really kind of inspires fresh, new clean. So yeah, it was a real, there you go. Especially ’cause it’s a tough topic, so, you know, it’s.

Dr. Weitz: So, let’s talk about the most important factor, which is about your pet retriever Truxton, who died at eight four. Of course, I love the [00:02:00] fact that you include your story about your pet laboratory retriever.  We, we had two yellow labs ourselves, so we’re big lab fans.

Dr. Cohen: I mean, I guess, you know, any dog, any pet fan I think would relate to this. I mean, even, I like to say, you know, if it was your kid, your human kid, but I’ll be honest, I think people just are universally in love with their animals. So, maybe not so much their kids, but their animals, but yeah, you know, the, listen, I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing.  I wouldn’t be talking to you now if it wasn’t for this horrible story about my dog getting sick. Sick. And in short, it was about 15 years ago and it really kicked off a lot of what I’m doing. So he was a golden retriever. He was beautiful. And it’s in, you know, his picture is in everything I do, and he was about four and a half years of age young.

And he got really sick. We didn’t know what it was. We thought he swallowed a, you know, a sock or something as they do. And turns out he had what was called autoimmune hepatitis. So his immune system was [00:03:00] triggered to attack his body, but particularly his liver. And so when we diagnosed him, his liver was like shrunken to like a golf ball.  Wow. Yeah, it was awful and it was chronic, so we didn’t really pick up on anything. And you know, not only is this unusual for dogs, but it’s also unusual for golden retrievers as we found out, and as an autoimmune disease doctor for humans then and now I, it was just remarkably. Sad and ironic and all of the above.  And so as I started to unfold, what could have triggered his immune system towards himself, right? Similar to the way human autoimmune diseases seemed to work. I was looking at his water quality. I was looking at his dog food, whether it was contaminated. I was looking at. The red toy that he always had in his mouth, even while he slept.

I mean that’s, you know, constant. But I was thinking medi flea and tick collar medications and everything we do with our pets. And as I was looking into what could have hit his immune system, I started to, I. Really open up [00:04:00] a Pandora’s box of inquiry around chemicals for humans in, you know, in our market, in the US market.  And it was eyeopening to find out how little or zero regulation there is in the chemicals or in the products from the chemicals that go into those products that we use every day. And the more I learned. What could have hurt him? The more I realized that we are also, you know, canaries in the coal mine and I was pissed because I also didn’t know any of this, even in med school.  I was never, even though the literature was pretty robust even 15 years ago, there was nothing made mention in all my training, even as an immune disease specialist, that, that are, that chemicals can do this and that there’s no regulations for safety or required safety testing. 

Dr. Weitz:  And by the way, whatever lack of regulations we have now, over the next four years, whatever few regulations are there will definitely be gone.

Dr. Cohen: Yeah, and not only that, you know, I think one of the things I talk about, no matter what [00:05:00] administration comes into play, my argument has always been you can’t wait for these slow regulations, no matter how many good ones come out.  Right. Year and there’s usually only one or two. I mean, even the water regulations where they were getting you know, six per floor alcohol chemicals out of the water system, which is already completely unregulated to be honest. It’s 50 years old in terms of it oversight. And that’s all of our drinking water.  Right? That actually is on hold and it’s only six out of 15,000. For Fluor alcohol chemicals within the class, so right. You could say like, okay, great, we got red dye number three out, but there’s a, there’s literally 1100 or pl or more food chemicals that have not been tested or have been tested and can’t be removed.  It’s a whack-a-mole. So my goal has always been. Don’t wait for anyone. Be independent. Be smart. Here’s some facts that are very simple. Let’s do this ourselves. Let’s make ourselves healthy

Dr. Weitz: and even when they do remove one of these chemicals, they [00:06:00] remove B-P-E-B-P-A. They add in BPS or BP something else, and those chemicals are probably just as toxic or even more.

Dr. Cohen: Yeah. In fact that’s actually absolutely true because BPA, my co-author for two textbooks was Ro is Fred Baum, Saul. He’s a renowned reproductive neurobiologist from University of Missouri. He was largely responsible with his colleagues for getting pla BPA Bisphenol A, which is just one bisphenol out of thousands.

Out of plastic baby bottles in 2012. Then, I mean, and of course if it was bad enough for plastic baby bottles and babies, why aren’t we getting it out everywhere, including our foods? But unfortunately that’s as far as it went. Then they created substitutions called regrettable substitutions ’cause we have to chase after the fact to do the science after.

And that’s by third party academic situations, you know, centers. It’s not by manufacturers being recorded. Required to test for safety or toxicity before they go [00:07:00] into the products that we use every day. And so yes, we are. We are constantly whack-a-mole and BPS one of the most popular regrettable substitutions for BPA has been shown to not only be as bad from a human health perspective as BPA, but even potentially worse.

Dr. Weitz: And is that in baby bottles as well?

Dr. Cohen: So it can be, so the question is, because it can be, we don’t know. There is no proprie, you know, everything is unlabeled. Whether it’s the word fragrance or perfume on our laundry detergent or our personal care products and cosmetics or you know, plastics don’t have a label on them, right?

We’re not required. You know, consumers are not allowed to know what makes up those plastics. It could be phthalates, it could be beast phenols, it could be, you know, sometimes they add antimicrobials, sometimes they add you know, different components to plastic to make it more flexible, less flexible.

Those kind of things. So the idea is that there are some really reasonable, I wanna keep saying this to your audience [00:08:00] because I’m trying to say to people that this, there’s plenty of solutions to reduce exposures. And the reason I know that is because I read the studies that show when you change to say organic diets, that you reduce organic phosphate chemicals and glyphosate in your system.

If you know, change to you know, change out non-stick pans and you get a bunch of things like peral, Fluor, alcohols out of your life. By just making some better choices. Not expensive. You can lower those levels in the body fluids that are tested and so it just makes really good sense if you know you could just swap or change.

And I came up with the four A’s, which we can talk about in order to walk people through that.

Dr. Weitz: So when it comes to plastics, there’s really not a better plastic. You basically need to eliminate plastic.

Dr. Cohen: Yeah. I will say this though, silicone, you know, there are some things that are really hard to recreate, such as baby nipples for their bottles.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Cohen: And the more I’ve discussed this is, you know, with people as much as I can, silicone that’s [00:09:00] medical grade, silicone in American made bottles tend to have no real extreme issue. So I think that, you know, again, everything is a risk benefit ratio. There’s no great recreation for a woman’s nipple besides say silicone, right?

So I. You have to be reasonable about how panicked or scared we get. But you can certainly have a glass bottle that I didn’t have the luxury of having. ’cause I didn’t know better when I had two kids, so, right. You know, the thing is when you know better, you do better. That’s simply what it is.

Dr. Weitz: Right. Why don’t you talk a little about a little bit about your personal journey and you talk in your book about how you were used to drink tap water and eat cheese whiz and McDonald’s breakfast at a plastic containers on your way to work.

Dr. Cohen: You know, listen, I, and I color my hair so you know your audience and you might be saying like, what is she talking about? But the fact is that there’s never a time in your journey that you can’t make changes that make a difference. And when I talk about patients, even in the book and I give cases, [00:10:00] there are people that are just fatigued and we walk it through and tie it back to some of these exposures that may be high levels in their blood, not just autoimmune diseases and eczema and psoriasis and migraines.

We’re talking about. Quality of life. I did have a really ugly journey, you know, from when I was a child. I mean, I used to, you know, break into Flintstones vitamins with my brother and we used to like, you know, eat the whole bottle and we would eat like, you know, processed foods and, you know, cereals on the kitchen table where we’d play games with all of the classic serials.

And so. You know, I always say if I can do it, anyone can do it. And I’ve watched my levels in a variety of ways over the years. I’ve watched, you know, the studies and I want people to know that it can be done and that you know, it’s not as complicated. It’s not as overwhelming when you put it in the right perspective.

Dr. Weitz: For those who don’t understand the connection between autoimmune diseases like truckin, autoimmune liver disease and [00:11:00] toxins, can you explain how toxins play a role in as triggers for autoimmune diseases?

Dr. Cohen: Yeah, so let me go back to basics. We have been evolving as humans on this planet for over 4.5 million years.

And all of these synthetic chemicals that I’m referring to that are often called toxins ’cause we now know a lot more about how they work chemically in, in you know, in, in science, in, in the lab, but also in animals and now also in humans. These environmental chemicals that we use, so many synthetic, there’s about 95,000 is sort of the going number.

Have only been introduced into the human existence over the past 75 years. So we have millions of years. Our bodies have been really eloquently creating this immune system. It’s meant for surveillance. It’s meant to protect us from infections and a variety of natural environmental exposures.

Then here comes all these chemicals that are, [00:12:00] you know, human made. And really look foreign to the human body’s really beautiful immune system. So the body is doing what it’s supposed to do. The problem is that we just have too many chemicals all at once. No way to evolve. No way to manage entirely.

It goes to the idea, and again, I’m gonna walk people back on how to reduce those exposures so no one’s overwhelmed. But we have a link between these exposures and a variety of health issues, and I’m coming at it now. I used to come at it from just the hormones and endocrine disruption framework, but now I’m coming at it from the immune system framework because of the work I do clinically.

We now know that between, you know, somewhere between five and 14% of the American population is suffering from some type of autoimmune disease. There’s about 80 of them classified, but but the, it’s an epidemic and we are starting to see, and I’m starting to see along with a literature to [00:13:00] support it, people developing autoimmune and immune disorders at much younger ages than anyone would’ve expected.

And with no known family history of these illnesses, which means that there’s a very strong environmental component and also means that we can work to remove that environmental component.

Dr. Weitz: Can you give us a little more science about how autoimmune diseases can be triggered by environmental toxins?

Dr. Cohen: Sure.

Well, there’s several mechanisms, but it also has to do with the type of chemical. Because there’s so many, there’s heavy metals, there’s bisphenols, there’s phthalates, there’s, and how

Dr. Weitz: do those different chemicals affect the immune system differently? I.

Dr. Cohen: Well, you know, there it has a lot to do with what science has been discovered.

You know, we have okay science to discover, but we know, for instance, BPA, which is sort of the first endocrine disrupting chemical that was first established and identified. That’s [00:14:00] become the grandmother grandfather of all of these chemicals because we know the reason they’re calling them.

Endocrine disruptors, and I call them immune disruptors, but the idea is that I

Dr. Weitz: noticed you mentioned that in your book and you seem to distinguish between immune disruptors and endocrine disruptors.

Dr. Cohen: Yeah, and to be honest with you, again, it’s reframing because we know that every immune system cell, and there are th you know, really thousands of different types from the innate and humeral immune system.

They have receptors for estrogen and androgens. They have receptors for variety of the hormones, so they work. They crosstalk to each other. They are connected by their communication skills. So the immune system is actually not separate from the endocrine system, but you know, what we’re starting to see is number one there’s mechanisms like molecular mimicry where some of these chemicals.

Actually make the body they’re very much similar to self antigens. So components in the human body where the immune system, where it’s directing [00:15:00] itself towards an outside chemical actually gets confused and starts looking at some of the tissues in the body that looks similar, and that’s called molecular mimicry, similar compounds and setting off a trigger.

Dr. Weitz: Isn’t that really one of the main mechanisms how toxins trigger autoimmune diseases?

Dr. Cohen: Well, it’s one of many because here’s some other ones you might wanna hear about. So for instance,

Dr. Weitz: okay,

Dr. Cohen: tell us the gut microbiome. You know, our gut microbiome, which a lot of people have heard about. I’m sure your audience has heard some people, of course, about it, and you do.

But the gut microbiome is the largest immune system in the human body. It’s about 24 to 26 feet of bowel. And the inside lining of this tube, so to speak, is the microbiome. And so there are effects on the microbiome, not only directly that knock off good guys and some of the really healthy bacteria and microbes, but there’s also cytotoxic effects in terms of the immune system on the inside lining.

So there’s not only a kill off, but there’s also potentially an immune triggered response. It [00:16:00] also, the microbiome. Can get leaky where it lets some of these chemicals across the lining of the gut and into the bloodstream where it kicks off, you know, sort of a whole mechanism of immune disruption. So we have a microbiome issue, we have a molecular level mimicry but we also have sort of what’s called, you know, a homeostatic response with t regulatory cells.

There’s a variety of cells in the human body. And there’s a sense of homeostasis and maintenance of the immune system, which can get dysregulated by some of these chemicals in different classes. So there’s a lot of different mechanisms, different properties for each chemical.

Dr. Weitz: Can you tell us a little more about that third mechanism?

Dr. Cohen: Well, there’s t regulatory cells, their T cells, right. And their job is really to watch the cytosol and all the cellular components and keep maintenance. Keep maintenance, right. And so, so, so it’s considered to be an issue when some of these chemicals lower or disrupt t regulatory function.

It’s also [00:17:00] part of, you know, antigen presenting cytokine response. I’m saying these words, hopefully everyone can understand them, but they’re all components of the immune system that work together to fight enemies. And so when these chemicals set off something that disregulates that normal healthy immune process, that’s where you can get self attacks.

That’s how you can get you know, a dysregulation of immune system issues, not even if it’s to self. So we have other things.

Dr. Weitz: Have you run the lymphocyte map? Test from Dr. Bani. That would be an interesting way to look at T regulatory cells and this whole,

Dr. Cohen: no, I haven’t done that. I, you know, my, here’s the thing, there’s so much work out there, but the fact of the matter is that whether or not people become sick or have clinical symptoms is really a dance, not just between.

Their genetics, but also their environment and also their lifestyle. So humans are not great Guinea pigs when it comes to testing a lot because of all the confounders. So, you know, [00:18:00] I tend to tell people, and it’s come, you know, I’ve come full circle 15 years from being crazy and wanting to test and do everything I could.

To saying, you know what? It’s a lot of money to spend on testing. Let’s put the money into the solutions. And so I’m all about what do we do to actually reduce exposures? We wanna think about drinking water quality and getting a really high quality. I. Filter for our drinking water. ’cause we know that’s such a major source.

I think underrated contributor to human health that people aren’t thinking about is water quality. We sort of take it for granted, but a reverse osmosis water filter underneath your kitchen sink is $275. Now, there’s a, and it’s 150 and we know

Dr. Weitz: about so many of the toxins that are likely present in the water.

Not only all the chemicals that are not supposed to be there, but we know that they’re adding chlorine in Los Angeles, adding chlorine and ammonia, and they’re adding fluoride.

Dr. Cohen: Which, [00:19:00] you know, I’m not a big fan of fluoride. But we do need certain basic population health additions in order to not have, you know, going back to the 18 hundreds, right?

So we need the chlorine, but the problem is that no one, or we are not particularly attuned to removing those once they’ve been added to the water system. So in other words, there are detergents and chlorine and a bunch of things that are not removed naturally from these very old, outdated systems, these water treatment plants.

By the way, that serve 85% of the US population. And the problem is what we need to do is clean that water when it hits our home, sometimes 30 miles from the treatment plant going through PVC piping, going through lead piping. So think about all the water transient contaminant, contaminants that can get in.

So that’s the idea behind controlling things when it gets to your home, the point of use. So that’s just one aspect of chemical prevention and removal. And then there’s also. What we choose for quality of our food. You know, USDA [00:20:00] organic has become incredibly accessible from big box stores if you’re buying frozen USDA organic foods because frozen USDA organic I.

Sold by everybody, but also cheaper in price. Maintain all of their nutritional value when they’re flash frozen, and also have the benefit of not having thousands of pesticides that are allowed in conventional farming. So there’s lots of ways you can wash conventional farm, you know? Yeah. There’s

Dr. Weitz: a much smaller number of pesticides allowed in organic foods.

Dr. Cohen: For sure and genetically modified ingredients as well.

Dr. Weitz: Now that big pharma, now that big agriculture has gone into organic they keep lobbying to have more and more things allowed in and still call it organic. I.

Dr. Cohen: Yeah, it’s not a perfect system. You’re right, Ben. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s the best thing and the only thing we actually have, yeah, food system when it comes to, unless you’re growing your own food, which I applaud, unless you know your own farmers, and you can discuss that with local farmers, which I [00:21:00] applaud local farmers and supporting them.

But for the rest of us, mere mortals, you know, we’re stuck to supermarkets and I think understanding how frozen organics work and the fact that they’re better in terms of food transit and loss of nutritional value, right? It really is becoming, in my opinion, unfortunately or fortunately, the ideal way to get produce.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, so we gotta eat organic. We need an under the water reverse osmosis water purification system. What are some of the other toxins we need to get rid of?

Dr. Cohen: Yeah. So we love our personal care. I got two teenagers. Come on now. I mean, you know, we love our cosmetics and personal care products. It’s really simple now, in fact and free to look up products that you put on your skin.

Feminine care products doesn’t take long. And basically it’s just a scale system like environmental working group. They have an app called Healthy Living Clear is a wonderful app, Yuca. Think dirty. They [00:22:00] often, you know, they really do use a lot of the same database, which is great. But we have this really nice ability to look up products and see whether we can choose better, you know, whether there’s options and whether we can choose better.

And we can do that for cleaning products too. We can either make our own, which I put in the book, a bunch of recipes for cosmetics and also cleaning products. We can also choose better if we have a vetted resource. And that’s what I want people to have is the resources that make sense, that are overseen, that are evergreen and that’s the best way to share information is the resources themselves.

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Dr. Weitz:  Has removing toxins had an impact on your rheumatology practice? Have you seen patients improve their autoimmune conditions and maybe even reduce or eliminate drugs by removing toxins?

Dr. Cohen: Yeah. And thus the inspiration for the book.  I mean, I’ve been a rheumatologist now for 22 years. I’ve seen every medication come to play. I use the medications. I’ve seen things evolve for two decades, and I can tell you that when people implement. Lifestyle and make sure that they’re reducing those exposures, which naturally, again, trigger immune system issues even on a low level scale.  And this is for people who are either preventing diseases in the first place or people who are managing chronic. Immune and autoimmune dis you know, disorders there is absolutely benefit to the way you know, we can do this and [00:25:00] reducing those exposures. But there’s another piece which I want your audience to know ’cause I created something called the four A’s and that was to help navigate some of the teaching programs and high school students.  And it was the simplest way I could, you know, put together the messaging. The four A’s are number one, assessing. I have a, you know, environmental health survey, 50 questions, really simple in the book, just to get people an idea of what to be thinking about and assessing their own body and their environment.

The second A, is avoid or swap and avoid means, look, do I need 10 different cleaners for my kitchen? We’ve been marketed to that. We need a door cleaner and a hand, you know, a sink cleaner and a. Carpet cleaner. It’s like, come on now. Right? So that’s how many of the chemicals get into our homes, but also get into our bodies and our pets.

So you wanna assess, but you wanna avoid the ones you don’t need and then swap to somes that are cleaner, better, safer. You don’t have to make your own all, you know, you can always buy them safer. The third, which is key, [00:26:00] is add. So we have to add in nutrition to offset some of the. Epigenetic changes.

That’s another mechanism. These chemicals work is on the genetic level in terms of their epigenome proteins. We wanna offset the harm from these exposures even when we don’t even know they’re happening. And that has a lot to do. What we feed the human body nutritionally. So if you add in sweat, you add in good quality sleep, where you’re cleaning out some of those chemicals through the glymphatic system while you’re sleeping.

All anthropology. If you’re adding in nutrition, if you’re adding in, you know, reduction of stress and the list goes on, that’s the best combo is avoiding and getting rid of toxic trigger triggers and then adding in some very basic stuff. And then the fourth A is allow, which is. Life is life. You know, I want my hair colored.  That’s my choice. If I want to, you know, travel and I don’t have access to what I need or want at [00:27:00] home, that’s life. It’s the fluidity of life. Birthday cake. It also allows people to not be so restrictive in their lives that they work against themselves.

Dr. Weitz: So I want to dive a little deeper into, you were talking about immune disrupting chemicals.  So some of these chemicals, you said lower T regulatory cells. What are some of the other impacts they have on the immune system?

Dr. Cohen: So for classes like the per Fluor, Al alcohols, which are the Forever chemicals that have a Fluor, right?

Dr. Weitz: The P FOAs and the P Oass,

Dr. Cohen: yes. And they’re about 15,000

Dr. Weitz: and the, these include Teflon pans and flame retardant chemicals and

Dr. Cohen: aim guard chemicals.

So they’re really pervasive in our lives and we often don’t even think about it. So it’s the non-stick pan, it’s the raincoats, it’s the po, you know, the backpacks on our kids. Beyond furniture of course, because people don’t wanna stain their furniture. I used to spray my couch when, you know, 15 years ago.

[00:28:00] So, the

Dr. Weitz: chemicals that we’ve been having sprayed all over our forest in California due to the fires.

Dr. Cohen: Yes. And it turns out, believe it or not, ’cause I had to do a lot of work in terms of. California fire exposures, not just air quality, but also what they’re spraying is it turns out that those dropped colored chemicals are actually not as harmful as people might think at first blush.

So I just wanna leave that with your audience too. I

Dr. Weitz: did hear that they made ’em somewhat safer. Do you know exactly what the details are?

Dr. Cohen: You know what? I didn’t prepare that for this talk. Okay. I’ll tell you, my general gestalt was that I was more surprised than anything, and that also that they’re supposed to have a certain, like 300 feet away from any bodies of water.

And there’s a lot of restrictions and yeah,

Dr. Weitz: forget about

Dr. Cohen: that. Not to say that’s gonna save anybody, but listen, you know, you have to stop the fires and so what’s available? Available, and then it’s a matter of how do you manage that exposure. Like if I were to travel. How do I, how would I come home and what would I [00:29:00] do?  It’s the same idea is that life is life. And so the per Fluor alcohols, as an example, lower the immune system’s ability to to create antibodies. So for anyway, for vaccinations or anything you’re intending. To stimulate the immune system, it suppresses the immune system. So we know that is one of the major findings from the Perl classes as a general rule.

But you know, so there’s a variety of mechanisms. And again, BPA, all of these chemicals can affect

Dr. Weitz: receptors, so you might be able to inject them into patients for autoimmune diseases.

Dr. Cohen: Well, you know’s

Dr. Weitz: kidding. I dunno

Dr. Cohen: about that. But I mean, look, that’s probably not a good idea. It’s just, you know, look, there’s upregulation, there’s downregulation depending on the chemicals, right?  There’s half life of these chemicals and how long they stay in your body is a really useful tool. ’cause BPA is only six to eight hours. So you can actually, and there are great studies that we talk about in the book and also sharing here. That when you give up canned foods [00:30:00] or you swap, or you try to reduce, you’re also lowering exposure to BPA, which is mostly in the lining of cans.

It’s the epoxy resin. So there’s so many useful hacks that I want people to know. And

Dr. Weitz: basically the shiny coating and cups and all kinds of other things too. Right,

Dr. Cohen: right. Well, there has to be some degree of protection on paper or else it would be soggy.

Dr. Weitz: Right.

Dr. Cohen: You know, so, you know, when I travel I use my, like, you know, stainless steel.  We have soccer players and lacrosse players in my house, so I use the three gallon stainless steel, you know, for lacrosse matches over the weekend. Like, it’s just a matter of getting into the groove of simple swaps and behavior changes. My kids never microwave in plastic because they’ve been. You know, kind of cultured into that.  You know, they could, they swap things out of plastic into glass and stainless steel. When they heat and cook up they look up their products as teenagers. That’s an important part of what they know and what I teach in high school. So,

Dr. Weitz: On the [00:31:00] same, similar topic, the endocrine disrupting chemicals, I heard you say we typically think of these as.

Estrogen estrogenic substances. But I’ve heard you say that they’re also testosterone mimicking and thyroid mimicking. So can you talk a little more about how some of these chemicals that we think of as estrogenic may also have other hormonal effects?

Dr. Cohen: Sure. So we have lots of different hormones, not just estrogen, even though estrogen and androgens or testosterone are very common to talk about, especially in this day and age, right?

But we have lots of hormones, which are signalers. I mean, hormones are basically chemical messengers that get stuff done in the human body and have been doing so for millions of years. So they’re very conserved, meaning you only need a very little amount of any hormone to do its job, and that’s to save energy over evolution and.

Insulin, you know, which manages glucose and throws it into the muscles to chew up thyroid hormone, which is [00:32:00] critical to metabolism and IQ in children, for instance, and growth and development you know, other fertility. Components other comp, you know, hormones that we need. There’s enormous number of hormones that we use.

Cortisol. These are just a few that can be disrupted. And disrupted, meaning, you know, receptors go up, receptors go down, the signal gets created, signal gets reduced. There’s mimics that look just like estrogen or insulin or thyroid. Hormone or not? I mean, so the disruption can apply to a lot of different components that have been discovered about these chemicals, but we know that disruption is the problem.

It’s not working smoothly as it should.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. So let’s see. How do we get rid of these toxins besides eating organic and avoiding using some of these toxic chemicals in our homes and our personal care products?

Dr. Cohen: So, again, going back to this assess, you wanna kind of walk through your world, your life.

You can’t always control everything. If you’re a [00:33:00] commuter to some town where it’s very, you know, the air pollution is poor, you can put a filter in your car. But the idea is assess what you walk through so that you can avoid. Swap. And then adding in these components are really quite important. I overemphasize in the book all of these physiologic mechanisms that humans have had for millions of years, such as sweating.

Sweating does a really great job of removing the toxins in our blood. We have kidneys that we wanna support. We have a liver that we wanna support through some of our cruciferous vegetable choices. There are certain foods that I talk about that really support upregulation of the compounds and the chemicals and the process of re, of breaking down chemicals into safer components to eliminate.

But we also have probiotic foods and prebiotic foods that you can eat to actually help the gut microbiome from that angle as well. So there’s lots of different ways to contribute to your body being more functionally you know, more functional in terms of what it’s exposed [00:34:00] to. So it’s not a loss. We have plenty of ways to do this.

Dr. Weitz: What about specific strategies to detox?

Dr. Cohen: I run every day, or if I can, it’s raining today, but I also wear lots of layers because I, and I look silly when it’s 80 degrees out and I’m wearing a hat and you know, a jacket because I’m actually trying to sweat more. I’m trying not to cool off.

Of course, I’m well hydrated and I wouldn’t recommend this for anyone who has a heart condition or any cardiovascular issues but I become well hydrated before I do this, and so. I want to utilize my body’s ability to sweat as much as I can. I don’t wanna cool down ’cause it’s not just cardiovascular, it’s toxin removal, it’s detoxify.

Dr. Weitz: So. So infrared sauna is a good strategy.

Dr. Cohen: I. Well, I’ll tell you this, if you really want my opinion on infrared, I’m not, there’s so many different types, okay? I don’t know how the quality works. I don’t know if you’re getting EMF radiation that you need, don’t need. There’s [00:35:00] also been some data that I wrote about in one of the textbooks a few years back that there was a question of whether or not there was a higher rate potentially.

I say potentially for precancerous lesions of the skin because the radiation goes a little bit deeper than just the epidermis. So for all of that, I haven’t, I’m not trying to scare anyone away from a process they like, but I think in my opinion, I would rather utilize sort of, kind of established physiologic mechanisms like.

Old fashioned sauna, sweating, you know, whenever you can with extra layers. Sleep is such a critical part of chemical clearance. Toxin clearance. It’s not just about feeling refreshed. It’s really about giving your body enough time and the ability to just. Wash out some of these chemicals while we sleep, this is getting more and more attention.

So I think those are all components of lifestyle, integrative medicine, even functional medicine that we can embrace emotionally.

Dr. Weitz: When is the Ailey Cohen detox shake [00:36:00] coming out?

Dr. Cohen: Shake. Oh, I don’t do products. I’m really, you know, because of all the academic work that I’m doing, I appreciate you asking that.

It’d be, I could probably make a killing telling everyone they’re gonna die if they don’t drink my shake. But I actually really have chosen at this stage, and hopefully for a lot longer not to promote any products, because I wanna stay legitimate in academics. That’s my legacy. I wanna get this into schools nationally.

And so I’ve chosen not to do that.

Dr. Weitz: I, you know, I was looking at your recommended supplements and I’m like, I where’s NAC? Where’s glutathione? Where is liver support? Where, you know, multi, there’s Vitamin Fish, oil vitamin D and probiotic. I’m like, that’s it.

Dr. Cohen: Well, that’s it, because this book is mainstream to everyday people.

Okay? There’s so much more that you could layer on. Look, I have patients who come in on 30 supplements. I don’t necessarily agree with that at all. You can over, [00:37:00] you know, supplement yourself. I see it all the time. And you can have, I. Bad supplements that add to heavy metals and liver toxicity. We’re seeing this all over the place.

People are just thinking supplements are benign. They’re not, and especially if they’re not vetted and high quality ones. So when I did my chapter on human fertilizer and what I believe every human from an anthropology perspective should be on it was not so much how many products. It was the right products and the right.

Quality, not just of food and water, but of supplements or else you can actually get into more harm than good. So, you know, I think that the effort paid towards quality was really what I was trying to achieve. Not, you know, how many could you throw into your cart and push, you know, go, especially ’cause it, they’re everywhere.

It’s a billion dollar industry and most of it is just total junk.

Dr. Weitz: So there’s no supplements that can benefit detox really.

Dr. Cohen: Oh no. I mean, I think food is medicine. You get NAC can come from food, you know, you glucosinolates and [00:38:00] sulforaphane and there’s, fiber is a binder. I mean, I really want people to understand that if you can do food as medicine, which we’ve been doing for millions of years, that is your number one choice.

And that supplements can be great. And I talk about them because life is busy. Right. But those should really work their way down from the highest quality, highest yield and what should be in them. And I talk about that in the book. I even have a 21 day plan. I You didn’t get your book. I’m so bummed.

’cause I would rather you hold this up than me. I sound like a used car salesman. But you know, I did a 21 day plan, right. And I. How it was gonna resonate. ’cause you never know what you’re gonna get. When people read books and you know what stands out, that plan is getting a lot of attention. ’cause it’s so easy.

It’s day one. You,

Dr. Weitz: so what is your preferred dietary approach? Is it plant-based? Is it paleo, is it low carb? Is it what.

Dr. Cohen: Yeah, I talk a lot about the science behind Mediterranean diet. But what I also make mention in the book, which I [00:39:00] think is important to understand, is it’s not just how much fats and carbs and protein, it’s the quality of that Mediterranean diet.

And in fact, when a study was shown that was done it was showing that a regular conventional Mediterranean diet can be just as toxically loaded as, you know, a conventional diet. And that there, that inflammation really comes from reducing the chemicals and that was what stood out. It’s the clean diet that’s actually supersedes even just the big macros.

And so the ideal would be a Mediterranean diet, which is the most science behind inflammation reduction. We have plenty of good work on that.

Dr. Weitz: So just for those who are listening who are not sure, what is the Mediterranean diet?

Dr. Cohen: Mostly plant-based in terms of sort of the bottom of the pyramid, which by the way, is in the book, which I hope I can dig up real quick.

Pyramid. Pyramid, okay. But it’s gonna be sideways and bigger ’cause this is a galley. But [00:40:00] needless to say, what I want people to think is that it’s basically an anti-inflammatory diet with mostly fruits and vegetables on the bottom. But high quality and organic or cleaned with baking soda and vinegar.

In other words, removing pesticides even if you don’t buy organic or have access to them. I also put on the bottom that the containers that we cook in and store make a big difference, and that we’re forgetting not just about the food quality, but also thinking how we cook in what we cook, in what we store, how we clean our produce.

All of that should be layered into a pyramid when we’re talking about what we consume, because those packaging chemicals can be very harmful. Plastics, non-stick chemicals, phthalates, all of that. And then working our way up, we’re getting into sort of clean protein, less red meat, less alcohol, high quality, you know, chocolate and desserts that are, you know, as much as we can get.

Organically because of heavy metal components as well. And so [00:41:00] it’s basically quality. It’s a pyramid on quality, but mostly Mediterranean is nuts and seeds. Omega-3 fatty acids really high quality. You know, olive oil almond butter, almond oil, those are the oils that tend to be healthier.

Not trans fats, not processed foods, and sort of working our way up the pyramid in terms of the treats that we want, but we have to do it in a limited fashion.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. So I think those are the questions I had prepared or any other things that we haven’t covered that you think are important for our listeners to know about.

Dr. Cohen: Yeah I hope people will embrace, if they’re interested in the book, they can also follow me on the Smart Human with Dr. Ailey Cohen, where it’s on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. I have a podcast that I have environmental health experts, the people who actually create the science that makes it into the headlines.

And I also have courses and is

Dr. Weitz: that what your podcast is called? The Smart Human.

Dr. Cohen: Yep. Everything’s the smart human. And [00:42:00] also I have courses that I’m starting to throw up on the smart human.com webpage. If you’re interested in learning about heavy metals or pesticides or drinking water. I’m putting together as much material in small, reasonable courses as people are interested in.

So, you know, feel free to check those out or follow or check out the book, which I hope people will really appreciate.

Dr. Weitz: That’s great. Thank you so much, Hailey.

Dr. Cohen: My pleasure, and thank you so much for having me.

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Dr. Weitz: Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast. For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcast or Spotify and give us a five star ratings and review.  As you may know. I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine. If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and want to prevent chronic problems and wanna promote longevity. Please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.

Dr. Robin Rose discusses Kidney Care with Peptides with Dr. Ben Weitz.

[If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so more people will find The Rational Wellness Podcast. Also check out the video version on my WeitzChiro YouTube page.]

 

Podcast Highlights

In this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast, Dr. Ben Weitz hosts Dr. Robin Rose to discuss crucial insights into kidney health. They explore the kidney’s functions, including filtering blood, regulating electrolytes, and converting vitamin D. The conversation delves into chronic kidney disease, highlighting that symptoms can arise even in stage two when GFR drops below 60. Dr. Rose emphasizes the importance of early detection and intervention, discussing concepts such as uremic dysbiosis, endothelial damage, leaky gut, and the impact of toxins. They also touch on natural and supplemental approaches to support kidney health, like using bio-regulator peptides, nutritional therapy, and plant-based diets. Additionally, Dr. Rose shares her personal experience with kidney cancer and the insights she gained during her journey to recovery.
00:26 Understanding Kidney Functions and Chronic Kidney Disease
02:10 In-Depth Discussion with Dr. Robin Rose
02:34 The Complexities of Kidney Health
04:28 Kidney and Gut Health Connection
04:54 Challenges in Measuring Kidney Function
08:48 Managing Kidney Health Through Diet and Lifestyle
28:43 Nutritional Supplements for Kidney Health
33:23 Butyrate and Gut Health
33:56 Cardiovascular Markers and Genomics
34:59 Kidney Health Botanicals
37:31 Peptides and Their Benefits
43:06 Bio-Regulator Peptides
51:31 Personal Kidney Health Journey
52:48 Hydration and Herbal Teas
54:40 Final Thoughts and Resources
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Dr. Robin Rose is a Medical Doctor and an expert at supporting kidney health using a wholistic approach and peptides.  She has recently published a book, Renology Peptides: Kidney Success with Bioregulator Peptides. Renology Peptides is a comprehensive clinical volume that presents an evidence-guided scholarly tool to deepen understanding of regenerative kidney medicine and bioregulator peptides. Her website is Renology is Kidney Success.   

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz:  Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, DrWeitz.com.  Thanks for joining me and let’s jump into the podcast.

I’m excited today to be talking about the kidneys. In fact, this is the first podcast I’ve done on Rational Wellness about kidney health, and we’ll be speaking with Dr. Robin Rose. The kidneys filter our blood to remove waste products such as creatinine and urea and extra water and remove them through the urine.  The kidneys have other important functions including removing acid. Balancing electrolytes like sodium, calcium,  phosphorus, and potassium regulating blood pressure, helping to produce red blood cells and converting vitamin D into its active form. Chronic kidney disease is a long-term condition where the kidneys gradually lose their ability to filter waste products and excess fluid from the blood.

Most doctors monitor kidney function by monitoring the estimated glomerular filtration rate, also known as GFR which is usually considered problematic or abnormal when it goes below 60. But the reality is A GFR of below 60 actually represents stage three kidney disease. Full kidney function is with a GFR of one 20 or better.  And a GFR of 90 to 120 is considered stage one. GFR of 90 to 60 is considered stage two, which I don’t think most people are aware of. So, Dr. Rose, thank you so much for joining us and let’s talk about kidneys.

Dr. Rose: Thank you. Thank you. I love having this conversation. I think of kidneys as a root cause, actually.  It’s so insidiously connected with everything else. You know, we think of filtration, but, that’s only the first step. The downstream from filtration abnormalities is this crazy array of problems that actually do start showing up in stage two. You know, like you say GFR of 60, you’ve already lost 50%.  It’s crazy to wait that long. 

Dr. Weitz: And so how, what, why do you think it is that basically doctors say everything over 60 is fine?

Dr. Rose: Well, you know, I think long ago we didn’t have any labs and so by the time you figured out what’s going on with kidneys, it was pretty advanced. And okay. You know, we started looking at BUN and creatinine.  That added a little insight, but it’s still not very precise. When the GFR showed up, it. You know, I wasn’t there for that decision making. I think it has to do with, I may have to let my dog off its lease. Hang on one second. I apologize.  My apologies. A rescue dog who chases everybody home anyway. There aren’t medications really. And so I’ve heard that said, it’s like, well, we don’t really have a way to treat it, so you don’t wanna tell people they’re sick when you have nothing to offer, [00:04:00] which is where I come in and I actually renamed what I do ology, which is the art and clinical science of kidney success.

Okay. To say those words, the limbic cy lightens up because kidney failure is like way down the line. And so, you know, this decline that we see, it starts in stage two. I mean, it’s so cool to realize this. The first thing I started learning about was uremic dysbiosis That starts in stage two. There are a lot of toxins.  I mean, you know, the filtration includes filtering toxins. Some, the body makes loads that we get from the environment. And so, you know, ultimately we have to be aware of what’s going in and how do we get rid of it.

Dr. Weitz: By the way, why is GFR estimated glomerular filtration [00:05:00] rate is there a way to actually measure GFR without estimating it?

Dr. Rose: Yes, but it’s complicated and nobody does it. Okay. You know, so, so it’s basically a formula I that somebody smart came up with. Right. And you know, there’s also statin C which doesn’t use creatinine and that’s a whole nother conversation ’cause creatinine, like a very bulky person is gonna have a higher creatinine, but that doesn’t mean their kidneys aren’t working.  A very skinny old, somebody may not have much muscle, so their creatinine’s low and it makes it look like their kidney function’s normal. So, you know, there’s play in this wheel. But anyway, so there’s uremic dysbiosis, that’s a huge conversation and hugely important. And then there’s endothelial damage that’s enormous with kidney disease.  And, you know, the cardio decline because of kidney is some 30 to a hundred times more than someone without kidney [00:06:00] dysfunction. So it, you know, it’s a real relationship. 

Dr. Weitz:  And then mitochondrial, what is uremic dysbiosis?

Dr. Rose: know all of these nasty things that harm kidney ends up in the gut. I mean, it’s a whole conversation that’s, and I’m probably gonna have tomorrow, ’cause I’m doing a talk with a gastroenterologist about kidney, gut relationship.  But the truth is, these toxins cause leaky gut. Damage. Damage. The way the gut works, the

Dr. Weitz: gut is there a microbiome of the kidney?

Dr. Rose: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And the gut microbiome alters, and then with leaky gut, it’s going through getting in the blood and harming kidney. You know, once things are in the blood.  So inflammatory mediators from the gut, that might be a result of phosphorus. For instance, you know, phosphorus is a [00:07:00] uremic toxin for people who have healthy kidneys. Phosphorus is a lifesaver, but when it starts elevating, that’s a problem. And the problem in the simplest form is it sucks calcium from the bones and places it in the arteries.  Two severe problems that happen as kidney disease advances. 

Dr. Weitz:  And so, so if you have leaky gut, can you have leaky kidney?

Dr. Rose: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Weitz: Interesting. I know,

Dr. Rose: I love saying that too.

Dr. Weitz: Is there any way to measure kidney dysbiosis or kidney leaky gut, you

Dr. Rose: know,

Dr. Weitz: or kidney leaky kidney.

Dr. Rose: Leaky kidney, I love that. You know, basically a lot of it to me has become intuitive ’cause the lab work isn’t that good.  You know, the tubules are what gets harmed first. And learning about tubules is an adventure like the small intestine. [00:08:00] It’s responsible for things coming and going. And so the tubules are the discernment. What do we keep and what do we get rid of? Toxins in the world that we ingest end up harming. The tubules, the mitochondria are in the tubules.  When that starts going, you know, the energetics of kidney isn’t working well, things that you’re supposed to keep, get excreted, you know, you see protein in the urine that shouldn’t be there. And you know, things like sodium are brought back into the system when they should be excreted. And so, you know, it’s complicated.  And yet there’s some simple guidelines and some simple remedies to use to reclaim particularly early. You know, if you start in stage two, you know, there’s a little digging, taking a history to really find out what portal did this person enter to get to kidney problems. [00:09:00] ’cause there are several, there are many.

And you know, we look at vascular issues, we look at neoplastic issues, autoimmune issues. And so the stuff that we know already as functional practitioners can be applied and really, you know, you use your typical dysbiosis testing and then do some repairs. I mean, I was reading about Akkermansia yesterday in regards to kidney function, a beneficial you know, I, I was told early on by Jenna Henderson, who’s a naturopath, who works with kidney to do fermented foods as a daily every meal issue because you’re providing good organisms that the gut will then have more ability to adjunct the kidney.  You know, we talk about like intestinal dysbiosis, I mean, excuse me intestinal di. I can do this intestinal dialysis. So, you know, you’re using the gut to excrete some things because the kidney isn’t quite as adequate.

Dr. Weitz: Let’s just finish with the testing first. You said that GFR may be problematic as a way to test should we use cystatin C?  Is that a better test? Why why are we still using GFR as the way to really decide where you are in this process?

Dr. Rose: Yeah, it’s useful, you know, I mean, and you thought, and because this is a long haul issue, you can follow the GFR over time and see where you’re going. Okay. A lot of it has to be the intuitive, you know, I mean, you know, I, I didn’t include my story.  I mean, I’m one of the kidney wounded healers that I had, kidney cancer, had a nephrectomy. Woke up three months later with a GFR of 30 and basically got no [00:11:00] good advice and sat right here in my tropical paradise and started looking stuff up, right, and basically evolved this concept, I lost a lot of weight and so my creatinine was always super low.  There’s a discrepancy for me personally with GFR and S stat and C others, they’re pretty consistent, so, you know, it’s expensive. Sometimes insurance doesn’t pay for it. So, you know, GFR still has value, but to be appropriate in the kind of precision that we like to be, you just have to know it’s false, you know, know its strengths and know its weaknesses as a lab test.  And because, you know, if you’re dealing with. The lifestyle aspects for kidney, which is really the first step. These are healthy things to do, no matter.

Dr. Weitz: So let’s say I have a patient [00:12:00] and we are still trying to figure out what’s going on, whether or not they might have a kidney problem. Do I look at BUN?  Do I look at creatinine? Do I look at uric acid? If those one or several of those things are slightly elevated, what do we make with that?

Dr. Rose: So we know that kidney affects all of these things. I mean, there’s more parathyroid hormone. Vitamin D is important, and I like the 1 25 because that’s kidney prepares the vitamin D.  And so, you know, you do a 25 hydroxy D you’re getting a liver marker. Okay. Phosphorus, to me is very important. It’s not. Really given the kind of credence that I give it in the conventional nephrology community, but I, I’m seeing more and more it, it’s, it has a big role as a toxin and early on, the lab doesn’t look [00:13:00] abnormal.

However, during stage two already phosphorus damage is happening. Even though on the lab it looks normal. And what I learned was 3.5 midline is when you start being concerned. And there are plenty of activities to do, actionable for people whose phosphorus is elevated. But here’s another lab. I know I, I wander a bit, but the the phosphorus issue is connected with calcium 1 25 D parathyroid hormone, and something called FGF 23.  FGF 23 may become elevated before the phosphorus. And again, you know, when you’re looking at damage to bones and damage to blood vessels, that’s serious stuff downstream. And so the earlier you start, the better. And some of [00:14:00] that goes back to diet and lifestyle choices. So, you know, again, stage two, we can do real simple stuff and it helps to have abnormal labs to motivate people.  ’cause otherwise they’re like, yeah, I’m fine. I feel good, I don’t care. But when you understand that, you know, the beginning of a long story is where to be motivated. I find that guiding people to willingness to learn about the course of decline that you wanna avoid, I. So, you know, a year now,

Dr. Weitz: I, I read a review by Guppy and others in 2024 that healthy adults have a normal decline in their kidney function, I think between 0.37 and 1.07 milliliters per minute per year of GFR. And they speak as though it’s inevitable.

Dr. Rose: Oh no. And you know, I had this lovely experience talking with a nephrologist and Joe Pizzorno on a call.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. I

Dr. Rose: know

Dr. Weitz: Joe

Dr. Rose: and she brought it up that it is just what you said, that Well, the decline is inevitable.  And I loved what Joe said. It changed how I think about this. We do not measure toxins really. An elder has been exposed for many decades to toxins that are very likely nephrotoxin. That’s what’s causing the decline not aging as a thing. And you know, I have a 70-year-old husband with a GFR of a hundred, right?  It’s not inevitable. And so that’s where my passion for the bio regulator peptides came from, because you actually can reverse the epigenetic [00:16:00] damage and re-up the DNA deduction of proteins that can do some of these repairs.

Dr. Weitz: How should we think about kidney decline if it does happen? Is it typically inflammatory?  Is it more toxin related? Is it, what is it more typically related to when it does happen?

Dr. Rose: So, and that’s what I said before. It’s like there are many portals. Every case is really quite a collage. Right? Unique, but So you think some people, the hypertensives that end up with kidney damage, the diabetics, you know, the glucco toxicity, another insulin resistance, another pathway in toxins.

Absolutely. I think that was my story. Autoimmune is another one. Neoplastic is another one. And so, you know, in genetics there are genetic syndromes that harm kidney. [00:17:00] And so once you know that you get a good history. You are already doing some stuff for those underlying issues. You know, somebody’s autoimmune, most of us know what to do, but all of a sudden it’s like the attention to kidney changes things because the diet’s a little different.  The what the body will accept and use the hormetic zone changes basically for what’s safe and what may be too much or too little.

Dr. Weitz: Right. Hypertension seems being closely linked with kidney disease.

Dr. Rose: Absolutely. And you know, the other thing I wanted to say is every case indeed ends up inflammation, oxidative damage.  Okay. It’s the every case. And so that’s, that is a, oh yeah. Gotta work with those markers, with the spread. And

Dr. Weitz: consequently, addressing oxidation and inflammation is part of the [00:18:00] reasonable preventative care for kidneys. Absolutely. So, when it comes to managing kidney, chronic kidney disease, usually hear about you, you need to lower your protein intake.  You need to lower your intake of potassium and phosphorus. Those are things people commonly talk about.

Dr. Rose: There’s truth in the protein aspect of it. Again, every case is unique. It depends on what’s going on. Their blood type, their gut status.

Dr. Weitz: So at what level of. Kidney function, should somebody think about limiting their protein intake?

Because understand, as people get older, there’s a tendency to lose muscle sarcopenia and there’s a tendency to lose bone osteopenia. And [00:19:00] maintaining reasonable protein levels is important to prevent those.

Dr. Rose: Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, even in stage two, the one thing that you wanna know is there proteinuria?  ’cause with proteinuria, you’d think, oh, losing more protein, you want to eat more protein. But actually what I found is 0.8 grams of protein per kilo can be acceptable for people in the course of improving function at some point. You can nudge it up a little bit, but what I found is I have people doing 1.5 grams, lower them down to one.  They do much better.

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Dr. Rose: You know, let’s say

Dr. Weitz: somebody has a GFR of 75. That person should they be thinking about restricting your protein intake,

Dr. Rose: at least to monitor, you know, how much do you actually take in? And I personally did chronometer for a month.

It’s a total pain in the rear end to do it, you know, weighing stuff. And, but what I found was half of my protein came from things like carrots, you know, things you don’t think of as protein fruits. And it was like, oh, so I was eating way more protein than I thought I was. Okay. And so, you know, so [00:22:00] that’s interesting.

And with a GFR of 75, I think, you know, caution how much, I guess it would depend on the person, you know, somebody really bulky is gonna. Need to support that muscle. Somebody really skinny who needs to build up muscle also. And there’s a thing that is interesting to me. Ketone analogs are amino acids, that the nitrogen was taken off and a ketone replacing the nitrogen being an issue with decreased kidney function.

And so that way you are actually getting the benefit of more protein without eating the more dangerous protein. You can also supplement essential amino acids. And for a lot of people that makes up for the decrease in, in intake.

Dr. Weitz: And now, what about lowering potassium and phosphorus? Is that something that [00:23:00] really needs to be done?

Dr. Rose: You know, to some extent everybody should be aware of it. Maybe more closer to stage three. However, check labs, because not everybody with elevated with CKD has elevated potassium. Some people have low potassium and you’re telling them, you know, eat more bananas. Those who do have high, normal or elevated potassium, there’s such an easy fix bicarb.

Dr. Weitz: Okay?

Dr. Rose: And I saw five nephrologists before I found this out myself. Oh, you know, I mean, there are drugs that the Nephrologists use for people to lower potassium. It binds up other stuff and I find it a little bit demoralizing to do that to people. But, you know, between magnesium citrate and sodium bicarb, you can really raise [00:24:00] the CO2.  Which is the bicarb level. And it’s amazing what you see. I mean, optimizing uric acid, potassium, phosphorus, PTH, all by simply using bicarb. And you know, the other thing is a plant-based protein helps. That’s not to say never eat animal foods. Some people don’t. There are some people who really do better without any animal foods.  Most of us can be a bit omnivore, but not overdoing red meat seems to be helpful. And that might be because of the the acidification that happens. And so again, you know, you can offset some of the concerns because kidney is quirky. It’s just quirky. It’s like stuff that usually doesn’t matter, like, you know, mid-range phosphorus.

And so I don’t think everybody [00:25:00] needs to worry about phosphorus if they have kidney decline, but processed foods, get rid of ’em. Okay. You know, there’s, the phosphates in synthetic food, I call it, is a hundred percent absorbed, right? And so that becomes a IC toxin. Animal foods, it’s about 80% absorbed.

And plant-based proteins are more like 40% absorbed and they have phytates. And so it’s just, you know, you monkey with the dials depending on the person that you’re working with. Because first of all, if somebody utterly can’t cope with not eating meat, work with it, figure it out. How do we make this work for you?

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. So what kind of diet is best for a patient with kidney disease?

Dr. Rose: I think organic food is critical. Sure. Life shade is nasty about, you know, in, in ways that really harm kidney. I [00:26:00] think focused on more plant-based eating. So in other words more vegetables, not excessive amounts of fruit, because fructose has some issues, but you know, the fruits and vegetables, not so much grains.  You know, I’m finding that, you know, the tendency for GCO toxicity with kidney disease means every meal doesn’t have to have bread, every meal doesn’t have to have rice and noodles. You know, more eating root starches, you know, squashes and sweet potatoes and that kind of thing. 

Dr. Weitz: Now, if you’re going to have a more of a plant-based diet, you’re going to have more potassium, aren’t you?

Dr. Rose: Yes. And it’s more alkaline, so there’s a little bit of offsetting.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Rose: And you know, some of my passion about potassium is because my potassium has been elevated in the past, and I found out which vegetables were lower in [00:27:00] potassium. I was, you know, I grow a lot of eggplant. It’s a low potassium food.  I’ve come to appreciate it. Arugula, which is a wonderful contribution because of the nitric oxide, you know, the nitrates in it, low potassium green. Whereas I was guzzling kale. I was growing gorgeous kale and eating it every day. And, you know, the consequence of elevated potassium isn’t fun. I didn’t feel good.  I mean, I had neurologic symptoms and I’ve seen that in other people. And just with a little. Messing around with their willingness, you know, once the person understands why they’re doing it, it’s like, you know, if you’re driving a car and you’re going off the road, well let’s turn the wheel back.

Dr. Weitz: So when it comes to potassium, what you’re saying is you wanna monitor the serum level.  Is that adequate?

Dr. Rose: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it is it’s good enough to say we need to fine tune this

Dr. Weitz: more. And what number [00:28:00] of potassium serum potassium do you like to see patients with kidney issues? Keep below,

Dr. Rose: under five for sure.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Rose: You know, and you know, nephrology these days is saying Don’t worry about potassium.  It’s not an issue because there’s a drug we can use if yours gets too high. I tend to be a little old fashioned and more natural in my way of thinking. We can adjust the diet and we can colonize. And we can do saunas and sweat things out and make sure we’re peeing out stuff, you know, by hydrating adequately.  So there are ways to accomplish this.

Dr. Weitz: Now let’s talk about nutritional supplements that may be of benefit for patients with kidney disease. And I would say my experience is that the prevailing view in the medical community is as [00:29:00] you know, that don’t do it to begin with. Supplements are ineffective and unsafe, and especially since the kidneys are filtering out toxins don’t take anything.  Exactly. The worst thing you can do is to take an herb or some nutritional supplement that’s gonna put more stress on your kidneys. So what nutritional supplements are beneficial for kidneys? So,

Dr. Rose: Can I do a sidebar and share person? Sure. My, the last nephrologist I went to see, I had started with a GFR of 30.  I was alarmed. I mean, I felt awful. I felt sick. And so I went to see, I had a. Fly to another island to go see this person. By that time I had actually gotten my GFR up to 51, which as a doctor, the first question would be like, wow, how did you do that?

Right?

Dr. Rose: Because originally I was told, don’t be surprised to lose 5% a year.  I’m like, wait a minute. And so [00:30:00] I wrote down my supplement list and I gave it, you know, part of my history to this doctor. And she walks in and turns her back to me, starts messing around with her computer, and she turns around and says, you are taking too many things. And like, oh, you know, I feel like Susie Kre.

She’s like, oh, have you seen my labs? Yes, but I have not read about these things. So you are gonna hurt yourself and you must stop. And I’m like, oh, I’ve read about them. Would you care for some references? No. So, you know, that was a cameo for me that. Ended my relationship with nephrology, and after that it’s gone up to 68.

Thank you. To peptide knowledge, I think. And so, yeah, there are a lot of things. In fact, my next talk,

Dr. Weitz: talk about some of the nutritional supplements that can be beneficial for patients with kidney problems.

Dr. Rose: So I really love N [00:31:00] Nutrival.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Rose: I’ve used it for years. Did you know with test?

Dr. Weitz: Yeah.

Dr. Rose: And it has so much information and so much useful information for kidney.

So you find out there’s quirky things and not in every patient. So you know, your can’t assume, oh well, you know, your thiam transporters are broken, you know, but there’s weird things. Folate. Transporters, they go, so if you’re seeing these abnormalities, but that’s

Dr. Weitz: like the organic acids part of the test.

Dr. Rose: The organic acid part, amino acid panel. B vitamins, you see things all crazy places. Selenium, you know. And so I like to base what I do on personalizing, and that’s one way, you know, I’ve been cowgirl in it for years. I was doing holistic, whatever you call it, medicine. Years before functional medicine got named.  We cow, I cowgirl it. I made stuff up and went along with it and problem solved and figured out things. And I think with kidney [00:32:00] it’s kind of like that. You just have to see who your patient is. But yeah, you know, B vitamins I think are really important. Okay. Zinc can be important. Magnesium can be important.

Selenium interestingly has a quirky thing with kidney, so it’s worth knowing about. You know, iron gets. Messed up with some people. And so you wanna follow iron studies. Things like quercetin and resveratrol are very useful. You know, I have the tray with way too many things. Astragalus,

Dr. Weitz: I’ve seen some data on astragalus for kidneys.

Dr. Rose: Yeah, that, that’s the next project that I’m now calling that plant-based medicine.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Rose: That’s my next book. My what about,

Dr. Weitz: what about phosphate binders? Like ferulic acid, I

Dr. Rose: important stuff, you know, and again, I’d wanna know if that person actually has the problem. ’cause nothing, I shouldn’t say nothing, [00:33:00] but most things come with added either harm or benefits.

And so you just wanna know that you know, things like chitosan. I really love Acacia Senegal.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. It’s,

Dr. Rose: it’s a powder. I recommend people start with a teaspoon and go up to five teaspoons and get hydrated. Well, ’cause it can turn to cement in there. It is butyrate enhancing substance, which is wonderful.  But it also can curate things like creatinine in the gut. Again, here we go with the intestinal dialysis. It assists that process. Things like, I mean, rhubarb can be helpful. I mean, all, there’s a lot of plan. I walked around my property. 

Dr. Weitz: What about my, one of my favorite binders? Modified citrus, pectin

Dr. Rose: ab.  Absolutely. And it’s worth doing, you know, finding out the galectin status,

Dr. Weitz: right? Galectin 3 is an inflammatory marker. [00:34:00]

Dr. Rose: And TMAO trimethyl, amine oxidase, another one, and asthma. Also play a role in the cardiovascular decline and also homocysteine. So, you know, some genomics really helpful. Right. And again, you know, you’re gonna do all of this on every patient.  No. You gotta be an intuitive clinician to know, ah, with you, I want this. Right. And so, you know, the cardio portal people, all these things are essentially useful tools to keep folks, you were the one, you posted something just before about ace inhibitors. Yes. And hydrochlorothiazide. And it’s like, okay, you know, here’s kidney disease and reasons why, like aged garlic extract endo calyx products

Dr. Weitz: like Arteriosil.

Dr. Rose: Those are really, you know, they’re precious.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. Do you have a [00:35:00] favorite kidney combination product?

Dr. Rose: Not really. I tend to like, to weave all, you know, it’s like, again I’m such a obsessive personalize that you know, and I mean, the list of botanicals is crazy long. I walked around just my property, not that big of a property.  Writing down all of the medicinals that either are indigenous or that I’m growing planning to material medica that for kidney, because a lot of these things, they’re amazing. And, you know, the, like you say, it’s like don’t do it. But there’s a lot of literature that’s, it’s really supportive and, you know, it’s like if you know the pathophysiology and, you know, the pharma cocy of the plant.

And make sure I, you know, like certain plants aren’t safe, cat claw isn’t safe for kidney star, you know, too much oxalate. So you gotta [00:36:00] know that stuff. But, you know, to make that crossover, I’m going to use Java tea in this plant, in this patient. Cat Whiskers, it’s a really good, I just got some, I got some and I’m planting some it.

Okay.

I’m into growing medicine, you know, so it’s part of the diet really. So I’m trying to articulate that now for this next project that I’m doing because, you know, the anti botanical medicine force, especially in kidney medicine, is huge though. They do support turmeric. That’s a good one. Ginger is fabulous.  Galaga is fabulous. I just planted cardamom. I live in Hawaii, so I can grow these things really well. That’s cool. Cardamom is amazing medicine and I, you know, I started taking notes and looking this stuff up. It’s so amazing. The lytics have a place, you know, it’s definitely a senescent condition.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. What would be your favorite [00:37:00] lytic for kidneys?

Dr. Rose: You know, I safe quercetin and cetin.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. They’re

Dr. Rose: not that effective. I mean, I actually personally used Soo four Dry and had an enormous herx. Okay. Which scared me ’cause I’m here in Timbuktu by myself. And then three days later I hadn’t felt so good in a decade.

Dr. Weitz: And what was it that you took? Say it again.

Dr. Rose: It’s a peptide called foxo. Four DRI Drive. Okay.

Dr. Weitz: So let’s go into peptides. First of all, for those who don’t know, what is a peptide?

Dr. Rose: A peptide is a little tiny fragment of a longer, bigger protein. So proteins are big and they’re wound up in certain ways.  And people have discovered smarter than me. People who are chemists figured out like if this is the whole protein, this little piece here is the active ingredient. And so they’ve been able to separate those [00:38:00] out. And when somebody says, well, I don’t know what peptides are, insulin is a peptide. Yep. Many of them have to be injected because if you take them orally, they get broken down and they just become amino acids, which aren’t of no use.  But there’s something about peptide bonds. So when you take, you know, a few amino acids and hook them together, some other chemistry happens that’s powerful, is medicine. And so for me it was, thank you Beth Shirley, who introduced me to BPC 1 57 because it enhances nitric oxide, which in kidney it’s in the Cooper.

And that may explain why it’s such a vascular disease. You know, kidney is a clump of blood vessels. And so I was struggling to get my nitric oxide level up and somebody else was it might have been in your group, but I, or maybe Sean. Anyway, I. It was interesting because as soon as I heard that, I had [00:39:00] one of these head spin moments and was like, I need to know about this.

Spent a month reading like a maniac. Got some from a compounder. The first time I did a subq injection of it was like, changed my life damage that I’d had from my surgery was gone in a day. Wow. And I was like, I gotta learn about this. And so that was the beginning for me studying with different teachers.

But what I was doing was really looking at the it’s getting windy all of a sudden. Tell me if it’s too noisy. Looking at the relationship with kidney and you know, what’s okay for kidney. ’cause what’s okay for other things may or may not be. And found amazing benefits, you know, in the middle of all this.

The FDB is

Dr. Weitz: BPC 1 57. Oral of benefit as well.

Dr. Rose: Not as much for kidney.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Rose: Because, you know, that tends to be, I mean, I actually take the integrative peptides, BPC orally [00:40:00] every day and then use the injectable at intervals for the most part. Right. But it’s better for the gut, the oral. Right, because it comes from the stomach, it doesn’t get broken down, so you can use it that, but I don’t see it as mutual and in systemic illness.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Rose: So,

Dr. Weitz: so what is some of the other peptides that are beneficial besides BPC 1 57?

Dr. Rose: Know the thymus peptides are amazing and ta one, the din

Dr. Weitz: beta four.

Dr. Rose: Yeah, the fragment din beta four, one to four. The first four amino acids of that are very kidney protect. I think I’m gonna have to go in all of a sudden.  It’s like massive here. Okay, well I’ll show you where.  Okay. Sorry.

Dr. Weitz: No [00:41:00] problem. And

Dr. Rose: while I’m moving, I’ll do my, this is how much I like peptides.  My baby was just birthed this week. So, I then discovered, I mean, after I wasn’t sure about the growth hormone peptides with kidney, I’m still on the fence about IGF one. Right. And the role of kidney. I’m still don’t have clarity to be recommending it. ARA two 90 is a wonderful tool for kidney.

Dr. Weitz: What is a RA two 90?

Dr. Rose: It’s another peptide. Don’t ask me what the a RA stands for. I can’t remember. Okay. And it’s typically used for peripheral neuropathy and I’ve seen it do incredible things for people with those issues, even sciatica and stuff like that. However, there’s a role in the vascular realm.  I [00:42:00] mean, another one that I’ve had remarkable success is LL 37. Okay. Which,

which

Dr. Rose: is a anti-infective peptide and both for self and others. I mean, I’ve been amazed to see like radical improvements and gently placed. ’cause there are concerns with using it haphazardly. And I know a lot of people are. The issue right now is there are limited pharmacies to get these for clinicians who are prescribing

Dr. Weitz: And they’ve made it d more difficult.

Right. The FDA Yeah.

Dr. Rose: It’s crazy. And so I’m very hopeful that our new HHS person who is aware of peptides interfering, interfere with this interference and change this. But that was kinda where I got off in delight with the bio regulator peptides because they are [00:43:00] oral and they are supplements, so they’re not so far being messed with.

Dr. Weitz:  And so for those of us who don’t know what bio regulator peptides are, can you explain?

Dr. Rose: I am glad to. So in the seventies, Vladimir Vinson a PhD gerontologist was in the Russian military. Soviet military close friend of Putin’s.

Dr. Weitz: No, just kidding.

Dr. Rose: And unfortunately Professor Robinson passed away, but apparently I’ve heard Putin goes and comes out with carton loads of these bio regulators, which are longevity tools.  So Commons was asked to find ways to protect their soldiers and submarine sailors, I don’t know what you call those, from American ke chemo Chemical and [00:44:00] radioactive warfare. And he did, he came up with these substances, started looking at the sinus and the pineal. And after a while started looking at him as medical tools and he was getting enormous amount of funding.

Had a whole crew. His wife’s a pediatrician and so they, they did a huge amount of research, which really was just stuck in Russia. And a lot of the research, of course, is in Russian. And so, we didn’t really know about them. I found out about this not that long ago. Somebody mentioned to me the bio regulator peptide called Otax as in kidney.  Okay. And so what they are is very tiny fragments of glandulars. So like, and there’s many, there’s brain and pineal and eye and thyroid and lung and bronchus and heart and blood vessel on [00:45:00] spleen, and. On and on. 

Dr. Weitz:  So, and these are oral are they’re oral general. Are they readily available?

Dr. Rose: They are readily available. And you know, you have to know who’s producing them. And so there’s two main categories. There’s synthetic ones where they have taken the two to four amino acid moty and reproduce that adequately to use. They’re very clean. The body recognizes it itself. You’ve probably heard of Epitalon.  That’s one that’s become rather popular. That’s a four amino acid pineal peptide. I think it’s on the FDA don’t use it list, but endo lutin is the actual natural one. The, so the natural category is refined glandulars, they have more bulk to them. There’s the four amino acids and then there’s nucleic acids in vitamins and minerals.

Cooked up with it. So typically what the Russians say [00:46:00] clinically is the synthetic ones you use first, they have a more immediate, quicker, intense response. And then the other ones are less effective, but longer term. And so there’s a hundred different ways to go about using these. But you know, what I’ve found is every category of these has a hook to the syndrome of kidney.

And again, you know, one person might have issues with sleep and then gee, the pineal peptides are really useful. You know, other people might be diabetic. Okay, let’s put the pancreatic and g the liver and sinus in there. And so, you know, again, it, it takes that intuitive creativity to know what am I.  Who am I taking care of? What is this? 

Dr. Weitz:  So if you were going to set up a bio regulator peptide program, it would seem to me you’d probably, at least for [00:47:00] sure, want to include the Neph Nephro peptide

Dr. Rose: Otax. Absolutely.

Dr. Weitz: Right.

Dr. Rose: I love Piot Tax. I pretty much, you know, when I do consult, everybody ends up with Piot Tax and it, you know, but again, realize and what is,

Dr. Weitz: what is the best company to get Piot tax from?

Is it, does Integrated Peptides offer that one?

Dr. Rose: No, I don’t think he’s doing that quite yet. Okay. Yes, I know he, he’s got some going, but profound Health. 

Dr. Weitz: Talking about Kent Holtorf?

Dr. Rose: Yes.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah, he’s a friend of mine too.

Dr. Rose: And profound Health is really my go-to resource. Okay. You know, the. It’s a pharmacy that

Dr. Weitz: they’ve work directly with.  So you have these made from a compounding pharmacy?

Dr. Rose: No. It, no. Their pro, their product nature’s Marvels is the product that Oh, that I like the best. Now here’s something, ’cause I think that this podcast [00:48:00] is specifically for clinicians. You can get an account through IAS International Anti-Aging Services, and the discount is fabulous.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Rose: And it’s worth having a wholesale account with them. They even, they do drop shipping. So, you know, as a clinician you can order a protocol of stuff and your patients can get the benefits. I mean, and I know like, integrative peptides is selling some, it’s way more expensive. So, you know, and that, that’s an issue.  ’cause you know, I mean, you, so when you look at a kidney, there’s cartilage. Okay? There’s a cartilage, you know, there’s blood vessels, okay? There’s immune system, there’s you know, parathyroid issues, there’s bone marrow and all

Dr. Weitz: those are important for the function of the kidney.

Dr. Rose: And so what I did with this book was really weave all this together.  I started looking at, what are the other bio regulators, [00:49:00] oh, this has to do with kidney. And so the book is, has several sections. One is about alternative mindset of kidney, the stuff we’re talking about. Heavy metals, microplastics, phosphorus, you know, just the way of thinking about kidney that steps past conventional nephrology.  The third section is really the material medica where I go through every bio regulator and how they relate. To kidney care, and it was really what I needed. I mean, I call this the book I needed and I’ve cycled all of these over the last couple of years and it’s, and I’ve done that with a lot of patients as well, and everybody comes back saying, I feel better.  And I did the longevity testing and, you know, I’m 25 years younger than stated age, so I’m like, okay, you know, these,

Dr. Weitz: You talking about the DNA methylation test?

Dr. Rose: Yeah. And telomere length and know, and [00:50:00] so, I mean, at one point I had this alarm doing that testing that my CD four to CD eight ratio was absolutely dreadful.  I sort of panicked. I used to do AIDS medicine and I was like, oh my God. And I used high dose ta one. At a time, normalized it.

Dr. Weitz: Oh, okay. And were you talking about the TruAge test? Is that the one you did?

Dr. Rose: Yeah. Yes.

Dr. Weitz: Cool.

Dr. Rose: You know, and so there’s so many things to do, you know, to, to neglect kidney. The what are you waiting for was my inner dialogue about it.

Dr. Weitz:  Well, I would say quite frankly, most clinicians don’t know what to do with kidney Exactly. Problems. And number two, there’s so much fear about the fact that the kidney is this detoxifying organ than anything you put in that could possibly [00:51:00] stress out the kidney worse. So you gotta be really careful about taking anything.  Yes. That a I think a lot of clinicians are kind of scared off from doing much with kidney.

Dr. Rose: Exactly. And that’s kinda why I. I decided not to be retired and put all this energy into doing this. You know, as a family physician, having one organ to focus on is really a treat. It’s like the cherry on top.  And the book helped me really put all this together. And so it’s a useful guide. As a guide. 

Dr. Weitz:  And now your, your experience, your personal experience was you had one of your kidneys removed, correct? 

Dr. Rose: I did, yeah.

Dr. Weitz: Because you had a cancer.

Dr. Rose: I did. And I, you know, my I was like, how does health food, Hannah get cancer?  But when I looked at my story, I had been through insane stresses. Just crazy. I mean, my medical practice was embezzled. It was utter nightmare. You know, a [00:52:00] partner assaulted me after a decade, you know, my father got sick, demented and sick and died. My mom freaked out, got sick and died, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know, all the homes, rahe points were up there. And so, you know, it’s just interesting like, how did I get here? And I didn’t get good advice. I mean, you know, I’m sitting here in the middle of nowhere crying out for help and even really educated. Some of my mentors didn’t know enough, and so it’s really time, you know, I realize, you know, the kidney bones connected to the eye bone, the kidney bones connected to the ear bone, to the mouth bone, it’s connected to everything.  So it’s a root cause that we really need to know about. And,

Dr. Weitz: and it’s just a, and you know, we didn’t mention this, but obviously drinking lots of water is really good for kidneys. Absolutely.

Dr. Rose: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, being hydra hydration is [00:53:00] critical. And as people get sicker when we manage to miss them in our safety net, you can’t hydrate as well.  You know, then people end up getting all puffed up and all kinds of things happen, you know, hyponatremia can happen, but, you know, in, in the early stages, you know, one, two, and three, it’s like optimize hydration, right? And so I look at some of these herbal teas as part of the way to hydrate, you know?  Okay. It doesn’t have, you know, it’s like I put Shaka Piera in my tea.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. I,

Dr. Rose: I put my husband’s the tea bartender and he’s become an herbalist since we’ve lived in Hawaii Union, you know, so he goes out and picks stuff. You know, tulsi grows as a weed in our yard. It’s amazing medicine.  I mean, there’s so many things to do, and my personal, like, I’m not a good hydrator. I don’t think about it. Kidney makes [00:54:00] you forget to be hungry and forget to be thirsty. And so it really, there’s a mindfulness to this. There’s a self-love. If I don’t love myself enough to do what I need to do, that’s a problem.  If I’ve lost my executive function and I can’t, that’s a clinician issue to help. You know, and things like DNRS and meditation and breath practices and, you know, all of these tools that we know with just awareness know about kidney, you know, and visualize what’s kidney ’cause it’s beautiful stuff and it’s amazing.

Dr. Weitz: So I think we’re getting to the close final thoughts for our listeners?

Dr. Rose: Final thoughts? I have a website. Okay. Ology is kidney success.com.

Dr. Weitz: I’m

Dr. Rose: starting to,

Dr. Weitz: allergy is kidney success.com. Okay.

Dr. Rose: [00:55:00] That’s my my meme. Turning vicious cycles into precious cycles. What was I gonna say? The website is, it’s new to me.  I am not a geek, but I’m learning how to put stuff in. So I put my first blog, which was on ozone because Robert Rowan and Terry Sue were here visiting, and so I got inspired to write up ozone. You know, I have so many things to add. And so that’s a resource for learning. You can communicate with me through that website.  The book, I think, is a useful tool. It’s a research

Dr. Weitz: And the book is titled again, ology. Peptides. Is that Now

Dr. Rose: it’s a peptides. Let’s see if I can do this

Dr. Weitz: too.

Dr. Rose: It’s heavy. I’m gonna use it for weightlifting

Dr. Weitz: And it’s, is it available through Amazon, Barnes and Noble?

Dr. Rose: No, it’s only available on my website.

Dr. Weitz: Oh, okay.

Dr. Rose: I decided I didn’t wanna be meddled with, I don’t wanna opinions. Oh, this book is good. Oh, this book is bad. I’m old [00:56:00] fashioned. It’s a hardcover book. You can write in it, it’s all bullet points. It’s really a lot of information that I’m still looking stuff up in my own book. So you, so

Dr. Weitz: you self-published it, but you actually publish hardcover copies?

Dr. Rose: Yeah. We use Lulu.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Dr. Rose: My businessman husband has been taking care of all the details, so I don’t Okay. I’m not that good at that end of things.

Right. But

Dr. Rose: it’s, you know, it I really. I had a lot of people do editing to give me some initial guidance. But I really wanted this to just be like simple clinician guide and it’s a lot of information and what I’ve found is kidney is not simple.  Right. And so that’s the humbling part that, you know, nephrologists are all like geniuses and I was totally intimidated by a kidney until I was forced to get over it. Right. And what I realized [00:57:00] is primary care kidney is what ology is what all of us can do to turn this pandemic around.

’cause we can’t afford to put all these people on machines or replacement parts. It’s not easy. You’re talking

Dr. Weitz: about the pandemic of croat and kidney disease.

Dr. Rose: Absolutely. And it really is a pandemic. It’s huge. It’s worldwide And, you know, other countries do some more creative things ’cause they can’t afford to dialyze.  Their population. Right. And it’s not, you know, it’s like, okay, it might extend life, but it’s not a lovely life to live on dialysis or live with a transplant.

Right.

Dr. Rose: It’s a gift. It’s a miracle. And yet we can do so much better. We can, it’s, we can impact.

Dr. Weitz: That’s great. Thank you so much for giving us such valuable information about kidneys and it’s a topic that is really under talked about.

Dr. Rose: Yeah. Truly. Thank you. This is, it’s so fun to talk about it. And [00:58:00] I’m available for chat through the website on Facebook. They can find me. I am happy to talk to clinicians and help with cases. Okay. I do a lot of that ’cause, you know, sometimes it’s like each case is unique. Let’s talk about it.

Dr. Weitz: That sounds great.

Dr. Rose: Thank you.  Yay. Thank you so much for everything you do.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Dr. Weitz: Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast. For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcast or Spotify and give us a five star readings and review.  As you may know, I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine. If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and want to prevent chronic problems and wanna promote longevity, please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.