Biohacking and DNA testing with Joe Cohen: Rational Wellness Podcast 412

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Joe Cohen discusses Biohacking and DNA Testing with Dr. Ben Weitz.

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Podcast Highlights

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Joe Cohen is a successful biohacker and entrepreneur, the founder and CEO of Self Hacked, Lab Test Analyzer, and now SelfDecode, a DNA analyzer & precision health tool that utilizes AI-driven polygenic risk scoring to produce health recommendations.  The website is selfdecode.com.

Dr. Ben Weitz is available for Functional Nutrition consultations specializing in Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders like IBS/SIBO and Reflux and also Cardiometabolic Risk Factors like elevated lipids, high blood sugar, and high blood pressure.  Dr. Weitz has also successfully helped many patients with managing their weight and improving their athletic performance, as well as sports chiropractic work by calling his Santa Monica office 310-395-3111.

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Podcast Transcript

Dr. Weitz: Hey, this is Dr. Ben Weitz, host of the Rational Wellness Podcast. I talk to the leading health and nutrition experts and researchers in the field to bring you the latest in cutting edge health information. Subscribe to the Rational Wellness Podcast for weekly updates and to learn more, check out my website, drweitz.com.  Thanks for joining me, and let’s jump into the podcast.

Hello, rational Wellness podcasters. Today we will be speaking with Joe Cohen about biohacking and DNA testing. Joe Cohen is a successful biohacker and entrepreneur, the founder and CEO of Self hacked lab test analyzer and Selfdecode DNA analyzer, a precision health tool that utilizes AI driven polygenic risk scoring to produce health recommendations.  His favorite biohacks include lectin avoidance diet, the sun blocking light at night, circadian rhythm, entrainment, pregnenolone, microdosing, THC, butyrate, curcumin, galantamine, and nicotine. Joe, thank you so much for joining us today.

Joe:  Hi. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Weitz:  So what inspired you to start these companies, Self-hacked, lab test analyzers, self decode?

Joe: Yeah, so I had a lot of my own health issues growing up. I had just a whole bunch of different kinds of health issues. I counted 75 when you include all the minor different things going on. 

Dr. Weitz: And so why don’t you tell us about some of those health issues?

Joe: Yeah, I’ve got a whole list of them I published on online, but basically it’s like, you know, mental health, anxiety brain fog, energy issues,  inflammation, then just like random stuff like acne or, you know, things like that. But, you know, when you count it all up, it was it equaled insomnia, sleep issues, all the all the routine stuff plus, you know, a bunch of other stuff.

Dr. Weitz: So how did you manage to deal with these?

Joe: So I, you know, I first got into researching the body from top down first principles, you know, the nuts and bolts. And that’s eventually how I got into the DNA because I realized, hey, this is the fundamental biochemistry and this tells us all the nuts and bolts and, you know, with one test you could really figure out tons of information.  So I would say,

Dr. Weitz:   Did you start out by going to conventional doctors for some of these complaints?

Joe: I did, yeah. Yeah. None of them were able to help me at all. I went to the alternative ones as well, and I didn’t really connect with them too much either. It just seemed like they were using, you know, I don’t know, stuff either that I didn’t believe in or I.  Stuff that was just, it seemed random or that just didn’t work. Right. So it was, it seemed hit or miss, to be honest. And and so I knew the future was precision health. Right. We gotta know first. And that starts with data. So first we have to know what’s going on in the body, what and how do we know what’s going on in the body?  Well, we know there’s genetics and blood testing, right. Lab tests, different kinds of lab tests. Genetics I think is in, in a league of its own, but pretty much you got genetics and then you got blood tests. And I’ve been doing these…

Dr. Weitz:  …and stool tests and urine tests and a lot of other tests. Yeah, sure.  We get different biomarker of what’s going on. Sure.

Joe: Right. Lab testing in general to see what’s going on in the body. That’s like a, you know, that could change from day to day. And then you have the genetics, which is pretty stable. But then that’s where you can learn. Your [00:04:00] predispositions, your, the, all the nuts and bolts of how things are wired, right?  And then you could actually see how things are ticking in reality. But I think you, you want to know both of those things, right? So you want all that data, how you’re wired then plus how, what are the nuts and bolts in reality? The reason why it’s useful to know how you’re wired is because let’s say you have a genetic predisposition for a condition that you have, then the fact that you have it is, you know, there’s probably not that many lifestyle factors or the lifestyle factors are not as significant as it would be if you did not have a genetic risk and you had something.  And I’ve seen this time and again where the things that I have a genetic predisposition for, they were harder to take care of. But actually they were. They required more therapies, like a much more comprehensive approach because when we do genetic analysis [00:05:00] at self decode, we’re looking at millions of variants often.  So it’s kind of looking at a whole picture of pathways and whatnot on how the how your body is wired and if you’re wired for a specific condition and then you end up having that condition, usually it’s more than one mechanism. It’s quite a few mechanisms by which it’s happening. And then just doing one lifestyle approach is usually not gonna solve it.  You would have to combine it with lifestyle, supplements, diet, like more of a comprehensive approach. 

Dr. Weitz: Okay.  So where do we want to start diving into the DNA testing? Is that what you want to focus on today?

Joe: Well, we could I mean, we could just go we could go through my process about how do I, you know, how do I go about solving all these issues, right?  Because I had 75 different health issues. And I think the future of how to solve your health is really through a combination of stuff. So I think there is, you know, there’s a few big ways that you can try to figure out what you need to do, right? I think that’s the biggest question people have is what supplement should I take?  Or what should I do? What’s gonna work for me? Right?

Dr. Weitz:  Sure.

Joe:  And traditionally, you go to a doctor, they look at one symptom, maybe two, and they’re going to say, you have anxiety. You know, here’s a supplement for anxiety. Right. That’s kind of how it works.

Dr. Weitz: Well, that’s not how functional medicine practitioners work, but maybe not all medicine.

Joe: I’m talking about the conventional doctor.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Joe: I would say you go to doctor Yeah. They’re gonna prescribe the drugs. Yeah. Yeah. You have anxiety, so then we’re gonna give you an SSRI. It’s okay, there’s a couple options that doesn’t work. There’s, you know, it’s pretty much a template of how that works.

Dr. Weitz: Sure. A lot of conventional medicine really ends up treating symptoms rather than the underlying cause of the condition.

Joe: Yeah. Now, when we get into functional medicine I think you’re right, it they’re trying to take a broader view and they’re [00:07:00] not saying, you have this condition, therefore, and we’re trying to get

Dr. Weitz: to some of the underlying causes and not just treat the symptom.

Joe: Correct. Exactly. So that’s the goal of functional medicine, is to try to get to, and there’s functional medicine and then there’s not so good functional medicine.

Dr. Weitz:  And it’s easy actually for functional medicine if they don’t really want to do the hard work to just fall into sort of a green version of conventional medicine, which is you have this symptom, don’t take this drug, take this supplement that will do the same thing.

Joe: Absolutely. So I agree with you. I think there’s a lot of people in functional medicine that operate that way. Hey, I know this supplement for this condition. They’re just working with supplements and lifestyle instead of drugs. But the concept wouldn’t be too different with those people in particular.

Right, right. That’s kind of what I was referring to, right when I said, you go to a doctor, it’s kind of like a typical doctor. Even in functional medicine, a [00:08:00] lot of typical doctors work that way. Now. I think that’s moving in a different direction and you know, but now even when we go to the doctors who don’t work that way, then we have to ask, okay, so how are these other people working?

A lot of them are trying to work based on a root cause, like you mentioned, but a root cause could either mean like, a root environmental cause. So you go to the doctor and then they say you have a mold issue, that’s your root cause. Right. Okay. Now I have problems with a lot of those functional medicine practitioners as well, because what happens is

Dr. Weitz: you have the, so you just have to know that’s kind of my orientation.  So I’m probably going to give you some pushback on this, but go ahead.

Joe: Well, no. So, hear me out a little bit. Okay. Your orientation is in, like, you’re focused on mold.

Dr. Weitz: No, but..

Joe:  Oh, just, okay. Oh, I’m not arguing against the general you hear me out and the rest of, okay.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Joe: The problem becomes when a practitioner focuses only on meaning, whoever comes in, they’re gonna say you have a mold problem.

Dr. Weitz:  Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe:  So, not that the clearly environmental factors like mold or infections or, you know, any environmental factor is gonna play a very significant role. The problem is a lot of functional medicine. I’m not saying I, I’m not saying you at all, right. But I’m just saying a lot of functional medicine is gonna say.

We, everyone who comes through the door has a mold problem. Sure. Or everybody who comes through the door has a Lyme problem and now we just have to find the right test to confirm it. Right. So that’s what I’m saying, that’s kind of, I’m breaking functional different types of functional medicine doctors into different categories.  And you know what I’m saying is there is some clearly environmental variables. Clearly a lot of people have mold issues Right. Or environmental to issues. Right. And,

Dr. Weitz: And there’s gotta be an interaction between genetics and the environment because some, obviously Yes. You can put 10 people in a room with mold and you know, you might get two or three of them get horribly sick.  A couple of them get mildly sick. Exactly. And half of them don’t feel anything.

Joe: Exactly. Exactly. So the problem comes when, you know, again, there, there’s gonna be, people who just say that, you know, like I said, they’re gonna focus on one of these environmental factors and their whole business is based on that.

Right? And so it’s like you just come in the door, they just automatically tell you, you got adrenal fatigue, or you got right mold, or you got this. Or, and I’m not saying that, I’m saying each of these factors could be play a role. The problem is that first of all, often there are usually many things that are playing a role 

Dr. Weitz:  By the way, that’s poorly done functional medicine.

Joe: I would agree with that. I’m not against functional medicine, just to be clear, I’m against poorly done functional medicine. Right. So I’m trying to go through the poorly done functional medicine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, go [00:11:00] ahead. I’m going after the straw men here. Not, maybe I should steal man functional medicine a little bit, but I’m going after like, okay, I got it.

Because I’ve encountered these myself. Right, right. You say like, Hey, you tried, you know, you go to a regular doctor, this is exactly what, what’s gonna happen. They’re give you, tell ’em you have anxiety. They give you an SSRI, there’s no other questions ask. Right?

Dr. Weitz: Yeah.

Joe: If you go to a general practitioner, they’ll send you to a psychiatrist.  The psychiatrist will then give you an SRI. Right. If that doesn’t work, there’s a second line treatment. You know, it’s just kind of, you know, you’re like a, you’re like cattle. And so then but yeah, so, and then going, I would say with functional medicine. The, it seems like the type of functional medicine that you’re doing is much more optimal where you’re looking at multiple factors.  You don’t identify everyone as the same var that, that the same factor is causing all their health issues. Right.

Dr. Weitz: Definitely not. I mean, that’s one of the important things about doing a deep dive [00:12:00] into your health history to get some of the, you know, hints at what might be going on, what’s different about your environment, exactly what’s happening to you.  And then, you know, trying to do the right testing to confirm what we think might be going on. And sometimes it turns out to be something different.

Joe: So that’s the, that’s, I think that’s the good part of functional medicine, right? Like you are taking the time to try to understand what’s going on.  You’re trying to do more testing after you have a theory to either confirm or deny your hypothesis. Right? Right, exactly. So I think, yeah, I think that’s that’s the good functional medicine. You’re part of the good crew.

Now what we’re having though I think there’s a next level of functional medicine that is and I’m not saying you’re not using it, I’m just saying that this is where it’s evolving. We’re. You’re using as much data as you can to make intelligent decisions. [00:13:00] Right? Right. And so, the types of data that you could use is, first of all, you have all different kinds of lab testing.

There’s so much different lab tests you could do, like you said, stool, urine a whole variety of blood tests, metabolomics basic lab tests too that doctors order, but that aren’t analyzed properly. Right, right. And then you have genetics is its own space. And you know, I’m in the genetics space, so I have a lot to say about that.

The way that the genetics is done in functional medicine currently is a disaster usually. And the reason is because the way it started, so it started by looking at individual variants. So in functional mess I mean, how much are you into genetics per se?

Dr. Weitz: I use some genetics. Over the years we’ve used certain specific genetic tests that we’ve added on.  I’ve done the taken the the 23 and me or [00:14:00] Ancestry and put it through some software to get some idea of how this might inform and then you can also get a sense of some of the genetic background by looking at what’s going on in the body. Right? So for example, I just had a patient, we did micronutrient testing and she has low vitamin A.

How could she have low vitamin A while she’s taking a prenatal that contains that, that contains a precursor to vitamin A. So that tells me that in her case, she’s not. Able to readily convert the precursor of vitamin A to vitamin A. So she’s gonna need to take vitamin A in a more direct form,

Joe: right?

In the, so she’s taking betacarotene. Yes. And then it’s not converting into retinal. Right. So yeah there’s the BCO gene that is involved in that. Right. Now the, [00:15:00] so I’d say that is, so the way that functional medicine works with genetics is looking at single variants. And sometimes that could be valid.

I think in the specific use case that you used, it is valid. Right. Where you there is, there’s a few variants that are looking at the conversion of betacarotene to retinal. Right. And you could use genetics to see that. Right. And. People also use M-T-H-F-R. And that could also tell you there’s specific important variants that are related to converting synthetic folate to the more active folate than folate.

And so functional medicine uses that. Where it breaks down is when you use it to predict what somebody’s predisposition for a very complex trait. So any disease, almost any disease is a very, is a complex trait. Sure. What that means is that there’s millions, often variants that are involved in that condition.

Right? Let’s [00:16:00] say heart disease, you’re gonna have a million variants that are related to it, of course. ’cause there’s so many things going on in the body that are related to heart disease. The problem is, a lot of these tests, they’re gonna try to tell you based on a couple snips, that your risk of heart disease is higher or lower based on a couple snips.

That’s where the the biggest problem is. So they kind of take that. Same kind of thinking of, we’re gonna use a few snips to figure out if you have a good conversion of betacarotene to retinal or, you know, a conversion of synthetic folate to methylfolate. They then transfer that logic to try to predict more complex traits, which you cannot do unfortunately.

Right. And so what’s happened is the whole functional medicine space in genetics is using that concept where there’s some validity to it, but they’re making it more broad. And then they’re and so then a lot of these companies, it’s very cheap to create any, [00:17:00] a genetic company that looks at a couple snips and just has a PDF report.

It’s a few thousand dollars to create a company. And what happens is these companies get created, they just spend all the money on educating practitioners and marketing. I. Here’s the snips that you need to look at. Right, right. And then, oh, it happens to be our test has all these snips. Right? Right. And so people get trained on like very specific variants.

Which again, you know, when we looked at all these tests, we realized that there, it’s not valid to predict any kind of complex trait. You could predict the lactose intolerance. You could predict a couple other things. Maybe you could predict a P OE and BRCA with specific variants, but you cannot predict a complex trait.

And so conditions in general, diseases conditions, these are complex trait. Sometimes nutrients have less variants, but sometimes they have a lot of variants that are related to it. So, I think the future of functional medicine is gonna be looking at much more [00:18:00] advanced software in genetics. Is looking at you know, looking at millions of variants and again, there’s a re there’s a reason why companies don’t do it.

’cause to build this infrastructure, first of all, we have 25 engineers just to maintain this stuff. Right? Right. It’s very complex. Right. Whereas if we just built a I, the initial version of what we had was basically what all these other companies have, just A PDF, it’s very cheap. There’s no server costs.  You know, we’re paying like, you know, $60,000 a month just on server costs. Whereas if we just had a PDF with like 50 SNPs, it would cost almost nothing, right? ’cause very little processing there.

Dr. Weitz: So the difference between your genetic testing and say taking data from 23 and me and analyzing it is what?

Joe: I mean, it’s huge. So I wouldn’t say taking data from 23 and me per se I would say ’cause 23 and Me is, the data itself is, okay. Okay. They’re looking at, let’s say [00:19:00] 700,000 variants. Right? What you still have to do after that, you have to put it through software that we, you know, we built this software that, it’s called imputation, that looks, you can extract, that you can actually predict all of somebody’s variance, right.

Based on these 700,000 variants Okay. With the right software. The problem becomes when you do a test that it’s only looking at 50 SNPs or something like that. Oh, okay. And yeah and so it’s not the test itself, it’s the analysis. But then a lot of these companies will only do the 50 SNPs that they’re looking at because they don’t see any need to do other ones.

So you cannot reuse that data anywhere else. Right. The 23 and Mees, you could reuse. It’s still better if you do it with us because. When you don’t get it directly from the lab, you’re missing actually a lot of data. That text file that you have is is just a fraction of what the data that comes off the lab is.

They do it because you can easily download that data on your computer as a text file, [00:20:00] right. And upload it. Or you can’t handle a VCF file. You need specialized software for it. So the idea is that you know, and the other thing is, yeah, so, and the other thing is when you have too many different kinds of files, it’s becomes complex.

Like we validate it on our type of file, and then when if you change it around, sometimes the results are not exactly the same. So the idea is that the 23 and me files are not so bad in and of itself. That isn’t the issue. The issue is the analysis. Right. And so I think number one is I think when you have good genetic analysis, I think you could, I, I think that could really make a very big difference.

With predicting what is somebody at risk for and also predicting what kind of recommendations they need based on all their genetic risks and all their variants that they have. So, that’s one. And then I think you want to do a lot of biomarker testing, especially the ones that are applicable to see what is you know, what’s [00:21:00] actually wrong in reality.

Right. To see which that are related are being

Dr. Weitz: expressed or not.

Joe: Yeah. Or just, you know, which lab tests that are related to specific issues that they have. Right, right. You wanna do those lab tests. Sure. So if it’s, you might have an inflammatory risk of

Dr. Weitz: hypertension, but you might not have hypertension or you might have an increased risk of small dense LDL and you might not have elevated small dense LDL.

Joe: Right, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, it’s, it is actually interesting. Do you ever test a POB in your practice? Yeah, of course. Okay. So. I had a genetic risk of high A OB. Okay. High lipoprotein A. Okay, but normal LDL cholesterol. Okay. Now LDL cholesterol and a OB are correlated.

Dr. Weitz: Yes. They usually track with each other.

Joe: They usually track, right? Yeah. Now, the thing is that because my genetic risk was typical, my genetic risk for a OB was [00:22:00] high. It turns out that I can normalize my LDL cholesterol just by changing one lifestyle factors, how much saturated fat I eat.

Dr. Weitz: Okay? It does

Joe: not normalize my A OB.

Dr. Weitz: Okay?

Joe: Yeah. So if I want to normalize my LDL cholesterol, this any, like, there’s so many things I could bring it down with drugs, diet, supplements, when I wanna normalize my A OB.  It could go down, but it’s way harder because I have a very high genetic risk for that.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. It’s unusual. I, most of the patients I’ve seen who have a elevated A OB, usually the things that would lower their LDL, lower their A OB ’cause that’s part of a OB.

Joe: And that’s true. And the things that lower one is going lower the other.  But when you look at the magnitude, my LDL cholesterol was at two 50 at one point. And then it went down to 50. But my A OB was one 20 and went down to the 60 at the lowest. Now. Now what about your LDL

Dr. Weitz: particle number? ’cause I think that’s the LDL [00:23:00] particle number closely with A OB.

Joe: It does. That was also more difficult to go down.  Right? More difficult than the LDL cholesterol.

Dr. Weitz: Right, because LDL is an estimated number. It says you have this much LDL, right? Not how many particles you have. And the smaller dense particles are the riskier ones that are more likely to create plaque.

Joe: Correct. Exactly. So, I mean, and then, you know, was able to find that I had like, so number one is they did call my a OB genetic risk correctly for sure.  It’s very clear that I have high A OB and an LDL particle count, and then it also called my a lipoprotein a. And so genetics can really do a very vast screening of predispositions, whether you’re gonna heart disease, kidney disease cancers are more environmental, so it’s not as accurate. But you still can get a very good screening of a whole bunch of conditions.

And and if you have something, you could also use it as a differential [00:24:00] diagnosis to see. Okay, how much is this genetic versus lifestyle? And I find that’s quite accurate in the sense that when something’s more genetic, it usually requires more things. When it’s lifestyle based, it’s usually one thing that’s causing it.

That’s when the mold things could be more like, oh, you got one infection that’s just okay that, you know, you got mold and you just take the mold away, then you shouldn’t have a problem. That’s the theoretically, right. Like, ’cause it’s one environmental variable

Dr. Weitz: and it should also be able to help us decide which therapies gonna be more effective for you versus someone else.

Joe: Exactly. So that it also helps determine, based on specific variants, you could kind of upvote a little bit in terms of the recommendations. That’s what we do with these specific variants. We will give it a little more waiting. You know, number one is that, so the issue with these other companies is that they’re gonna give a.

A recommendation just based on the snp. You cannot do that because you first have to find all the things that are relevant for a condition and then you can weight them up or down [00:25:00] based on specific variants. Right? Meaning like if you wanna see, okay, oh, you have this snip for LDL or whatever, you’re not gonna say, take this first.

You’re gonna see what are all the things that work for LDL? Okay, berberine could work for LDL cholesterol or Apo B. Do you have a specific snip that Berberine helps even more with right then? Then it might help even more. That’s the idea. It’s not and then this pharmacogenomics as well, which, you know, if somebody’s dealing with pharmaceuticals, they could see which pharmaceuticals are more likely to benefit them as well.

So it’s, you see the concept of pharmacogenomics, it does translate into supplements. There is gonna be specific variants that could up, you know, make something more or less likely to work, but you’re not gonna be able to predict based on specific variants, because that is more like, based on too much information.

So, so that’s where the newest genetic technologies have come. And that’s what we, that’s what our, you know, that’s what we mainly work on, plus the software [00:26:00] to bring it all together so that it makes it easy for people to like, understand what they need to do. And then they can look that over with their doctor and things like that.

Dr. Weitz: Right. So is your software is your self decode, genetic program, is it designed for specifically for patients or practitioners? Or is there a version for each? Both.

Joe: Okay. Both is a version for each. Yeah. Actually we’re gonna separate the practitioner one into a different brand. But essentially, yeah, it could be used for both.  ’cause the. The hard part about genetics is if with the more comprehensive the platform you have, the harder it is for the individual to understand what they need to look through. Right.

Dr. Weitz: And the harder it is, even for practitioner to integrate it into it. ’cause I can recall using this other software for that, one of the supplement companies set up to analyze DNA data and in the midst of a, you [00:27:00] know, even long hour and a half consultation and we’re going through their history.

And then to try to put into all this genetic data on top of it is, you know, when looking through pages and pages of data. Yeah.

Joe: So I can, if I share my screen visually I can show how this is my approach. This is, I mean, I, I. I have, we have a big science team, but I designed the, kind of the recommendation engine to fit with my general approach.

And I could show you how that looks if you’d like. Sure. So like, this is a, you know, a recommendation engine. Right. Okay. And let’s say if we click on, is there any, so is there anything here that particularly interests you? Would you like to,

Dr. Weitz: I mean all those, why don’t you look at fish oil?

Joe: Okay.

This is gonna tell me that all the things the fish oil helps me with. Okay. Okay. And so these are [00:28:00] based on questionnaires and so I’ve had symptoms, conditions, gut inflammation, and mood issues in the past. Okay. Okay. And so fish oil helps with both of these issues. And if you click on this, it’ll show you all the references and exactly how.

But the idea is that. It’s saying that fish oil is helping these specific issues for me, right. These are the goals that I have Okay. That fish oils helps with. Right. You can, again, you can click on any one specifically if you’re like, Hey, how does fish oil help with that? Right.

Dr. Weitz: What do you got to say about fish oil and prostate cancer?

That’s a good question.

Joe: Let’s

Dr. Weitz: see.

Joe: Omega-3 fatty acids so let’s see. It possesses anti-inflammatory effects and it works by reducing inflammation in prostate T tissue. It helps regulate testosterone metabolism, inhibit the five alpha reductase enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT, which is associated with [00:29:00] prostate cancer.

Basically, yeah. And there’s gonna, you know, there’s some. Studies showing like probably correlations with the fish oil consumption and lower risk of prostate cancer. Okay. Yeah. So the idea is that, you know, it’s these, like, there might seem like I, there it might seem like I have a lot of genetic risks here, but actually there’s, you know, 1300 reports and genetic risks essentially and it’s just taking the ones that I have high risk for.

Now.

Dr. Weitz: Now since you mentioned prostate cancer, you know, when you start getting into summarizing data, scientific data, there’s so many different reports and so much controversy. I wonder how you decide how to sort through that.

Joe: Well, it’s sorted through an impact system and a science system based on one to five.

Okay. And. The, in order to be a one, it has to have some kind of clinical [00:30:00] trial. It could be small, right? But it has to be a clinical trial now, right? Like for example, prostate

Dr. Weitz: cancer. There was one study that gets repeated a lot where they looked at DHA and EPA levels and found that slight differences increase the risk of fatal prostate cancer.

And you’ve still got doctors out there saying, don’t take Omega-3 if you have prostate cancer. Based on that one terrible study in which none of the participants were actually taking fish oil. Exactly.

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Joe: The thing is, let’s say if you, if it’s a impact of one.  Then sometimes it’s just gonna be wrong. There’s, there could be a clinical trial on something that’s just wrong. It’s not reproducible. The thing is that it, it could get drowned out by, you know, a lot of other data essentially. Right. I if you’re assuming that most of the time it’s gonna be right, then overall the information is gonna be correct.  So these are my genetic risks, and then it’s looking at my symptoms, conditions, and goals. And it also looks at my lab risks. So these are all the lab tests that were suboptimal in the past. Okay. The these are the ones that are read are still suboptimal and the last lab results.

Dr. Weitz: So, so you get your genetic data, you put in your labs and then this correlates it.

Joe: Correct. Exactly. So the stuff that’s higher up, fish oil is number five as it [00:33:00] relates to supplements. It’s higher up because if you notice there’s 23 genetic risks that it helps with. That’s out of, you know, there’s 69 things. I don’t have a genetic risk that it helps for as well. Okay. But just the things that I have a genetic risk for, it helps with 23 of them.

And then I have 27 labs, nine current 18 past that it’s helping with. And part of the reasons why some of these are passed is because I’m also taking fish oil, right? So, right. You could see, you know, the certain things that were just not optimal in the past are currently optimal. Right? And it could be that fish oil help with making a lot of these optimal, right?

And then there’s lifestyle risks based on just questionnaires. This is what a doctor will look at when they’re taking family histories and, but it’s just more intelligent more intelligent system. So, you know, basically the idea is you wanna look at the symptoms and conditions, but not just one as many as you [00:34:00] can.

You wanna look at somebody’s goals, you wanna look at all their DNA risks. You wanna look at older elaborates, but not just one at a time, as many as you can. And you wanna look at their lifestyle risks as many as you can as well. And then sometimes you have genetic, you see this symbol, there’s a specific genetic variant that can help even more with how, you know, fish oil and migraines, for example.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Joe: Right. So that’s kind of, you know, there, there could be a genetic variant attached to making something work a little better. But that’s the idea of how I think that’s kind of my ideal of how I think functional medicine should work. Sure is. You know, and then you also need a, an individual attached to it who understands supplements, who understands lifestyle, who understands how to use different softwares, who understands, you know, what to make of.  The impact of each of these things. Like, okay, what don’t freak out about [00:35:00] this lab test. Don’t worry about that. Right. You know, like what to worry about, what to not, there’s too many there’s too much data that kind of go in between the cracks that it’s hard to, you know, you can’t just, like, yeah.

You have to have somebody who really is knowledgeable and I think that could help tremendously. But that’s why I’m saying we also have a practitioner platform because I think people are benefited when practitioners who are knowledgeable know what they’re talking about. Because there’s a lot of questions that people have that’s impossible for them to just understand.  You know, there’s too many things going on. Right, right. So even filling out the symptoms and conditions, by the way. Right. I have some clients. I find that they can’t do that even properly. I’m like, so what, who really,

Dr. Weitz: you know, who’re really bad at that is men, you know, I, we have all the patients among the paperwork, fill out this symptom questionnaire and women will check off like 90 different things and men will check off one thing and then you start talking to him and they [00:36:00] go, yeah, my gut sucks.  I got this, I got that. And I go, we shouldn’t fill any of that out. Wow.

Joe: Actually I have the same experience as far as I can tell. It is like, the men are usually a lot worse than that. It’s like, no, I don’t have any issues. I just have this one issue here that I’m trying to fix. But then actually find out I go through their DNA risks.  All predispositions. And I’m like, do you have this? I’m like, oh, you know what? Actually I do have, you know, and sometimes they don’t even know. Like, you know, I, the other day, like, this guy’s like, yeah, my nose is stuff, but I don’t, I’m like, do, I’m like I think I asked and I asked him before, I’m like, do you have any allergies?

He said, no. Because he had a genetic risk for it, that he had allergies. Right? I was like, he’s like, no. I’m like, okay. He’s like, and then it just came out later that his nose was always stuff. I’m like, he is like, yeah, it’s just like during poll and season and stuff like that. I’m like, yeah, that’s, those are allergies by the way.

He’s like, oh. I’m like, yeah, [00:37:00] let’s add allergies in here. So, you know, a lot of people don’t even know what symptoms or conditions they have. And there, there’s no software that you can do that’s gonna ever fix that. Right? Like, you have to talk to somebody. Yes. See what’s going on.

Dr. Weitz: Right.

Joe: So what I’m saying is that there’s.

Dr. Weitz: Think, oh, you mean the fact that I haven’t taken a dump in three days means I have conservation.

Joe: Exactly. Exactly. It’s the fact the bottom line though is that I think we’re living in a very exciting age where you have AI and software that is able to do a lot, but it just it’s similar to like software developers, you know, these these diagrams where it shows like, you know, the demand for 80 for software developers is declining rapidly.  But the people who are staying around the, if you’re a good software developer who could use these AI tools, well there’s actually even more demand. Right? Okay. So I think the same thing is gonna go with doctors especially with functional medicine. The people who [00:38:00] are not very good, I think are worthless are, I mean, to say it very meanly, but like I, you know, if somebody’s not very good.  Just use software, maybe chat, GPT even, you know, but if somebody’s good, they could utilize tools and really understand things way better than, right, because chat GP t’s gonna be wrong a lot of the times and whatnot. Right? They’re not gonna understand the context or, you know, the person’s environment or it is, there’s a lot of things, there’s a lot of gaps that are missing.

So, but what I think is that now with the, with technology, I think the right practitioner who has an understanding you know, can really leverage things. New lab testing that we have, right? And to really have a much better result ’cause the amount of lab testing that’s out there. And I just see the genetic testing just as its own huge, again, huge changes are happening.

But also just with any kind of lab test, you saw how many lab tests I [00:39:00] had that I had done and, you know, you could sort them, okay, these are not optimal. And by the way, the fish oil helps with. 27 of these lab markers. Right? Right. And again, now the question is, okay, which fish oil do you get and how much and when, and you know, you, you give somebody a fish oil, they say, okay, I got a little nauseous.  Okay, then take less of it. Right. These are kind of where you need doctors to understand the patient.

Dr. Weitz: And ideally you need to not just test, but you need to retest. So you give somebody two grams of fish oil and their Omega-3 level is still low, well then that’s not the right amount for you.

Joe: Right. And by the way, I had a experience with that.  I was taking two grams of high concentrated fish oil. Right. And my Omega-3 levels were still low. Right. And what I realized from that experience, I was doing a lot of testing. So I was testing it a bunch of times. What I realized is every time I had an, my body was fighting an infection. It just took all [00:40:00] the EPA, right?

It just used up all the EPA. It turns out that EPA is needed when you have infections. And so I was doing these tests when I was traveling, right? So you go on a plane, you get an infection, right? Whether you feel it or not, you’re gonna get an infection, right? You know, you’re traveling around the world, you go to India, wherever you’re getting infections, right?

And then your body is just using up EPA, like crazy, right? And more than DHA, just EPA, actually, right? And what I realized, I started just taking like five grams of high concentrated fish oil a day. Finally, it was enough, right? Right. Because you get one infection, it’s just gonna wipe out your EPA stores, right?

Or you get inflammation or something. And what I found is just I think we need more EP more fish oil now than ever before because we used to live in like these small tribes where. You interacted with like 20 people and those people never used an airplane. Right? They [00:41:00] never, they had a, you know, they maybe they had a horse at a certain point, like in recent years, right?

5,000 years ago. I think the horses came out before that you were just walking everywhere. Right. So it’s like you, maybe you interacted with like a hundred people in your whole lifetime. Right. Whereas now, you know, just something could spread throughout the world and you get that infection. I mean, you could, if you’re traveling a lot, you could be getting, you know, 20 infections a year easily.

Right?

Dr. Weitz: Sure. And we have a lot more bugs that are resistant to antibiotics and, you know, we’re less likely to have immunity against them.

Joe: Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, these viruses are always evolving and whatnot. Right. But we’re just, we’re exposed to so much stuff that I think that. Assuming, you know, we’re eating fish all day, even we still might, you know, it’s still possible to be deficient in Omega-3.

Right, right. And I think a lot [00:42:00] of nutrients are like that actually is that it’s not, you know, there’s, there is an RDA, but I think the RDA goes to shit when, whenever there’s more an increased need for any reason.

Dr. Weitz: Yeah. The RDA is just based on a particular disease that occurs if you have below a certain amount.

Right, exactly. And we’re not taking fish oil. Well said. You know, we’re not taking vitamin C to prevent scurvy. You know, we’re taking vitamin C because we want to scavenge some of these free radical reactions that would otherwise damage our tissue. So,

Joe: well, yeah and now that you mention that, I also have another example there with vitamin C.  So. Allegedly. Right. And it seems like if you’re taking, you, you only need 60 gram milligrams of vitamin CA day or maybe 90 Right. To

Dr. Weitz: prevent scurvy.

Joe: Right. So I said, you know, I’m gonna take two grams of vitamin CA day. Yeah. And I was taking it in the form of slow [00:43:00] release and throughout the day.

Dr. Weitz: Okay.

Joe: So I was getting a steady dosage of vitamin C. Yeah. And the reason was because, you know, over two grams you increase your risk for kidney stones and arguably and argue. Yeah, sure. But that’s where I was coming from. And then, so then I kept on taking these tests for serum vitamin C ’cause there’s, you know, there’s studies about serum vitamin C and health outcomes.

I kept on having low levels. I’m like, what the hell is going on here? Right, right. Then I just said, you know what, I’m gonna just start doing like mega dosing experiments on. Vitamin C, like taking some liposomal. Okay. So I just started taking like five grams liposomal vitamin C, and all of a sudden, like all of like my injuries started to, like any injury that I had that wasn’t fully healed just started to heal.

Yeah. And then, and also it made me feel very relaxed, right? I was like, what is going on? Well, it turns out now I [00:44:00] know what’s going on. So first of all, apparently I was using just a lot more vitamin C, right? So it’s not relevant. And then the other thing besides how much I was using vitamin C is a rate limiting factor for collagen synthesis, right?

And collagen is pretty much you need it for your muscles, you need it for your gut, you need it for your tendons, your joints, everything. Your whole body is like just collagen. Yeah. And so I also, that fixed some of the last food sensitivity sensitivities that I had because it was the rate limiting factor for my gut Right.

To produce collagen and basically patch things up there. Right. So when I started taking like 12 grams of vitamin CA day throughout the day, all of a sudden I noticed some very big changes, lab tests. There were certain lab tests that were improving kidney markers. Yeah. There was my injuries start to heal.

It was great for my mood. Like I was, it made me like really relaxed. Right. [00:45:00] And vitamin C. So vitamin C is also needed to dispose of glutamate. Right? Right. So, it could help dispose of glutamate and it’s also, it uses like different resources to help create collagen. So clearly. The 60 or 90 milligrams of vitamin CA day was garbage.

Right. And even the two grams for me didn’t work out very well. I needed to take 12 grams of vitamin CA day.

Dr. Weitz: That’s personalized medicine and you gotta find the right amount for you. That’s, and I was also getting help, help us to understand why

Joe: that Exactly. Genetic testing, testing work and then also lab testing, right.

Because I measured serum, serum vitamin C. And you know, maybe even just looking at symptoms, conditions and goals and, you know, like just looking at the big picture. Right? So the thing is that yeah, I even also got sick less often then when I looked at the literature. ’cause I was like, how is this possible?

Something doesn’t make sense [00:46:00] here because you hear that you can’t even absorb it and you get, you pay it out. And I was like, something doesn’t, you look at the literature, it turns out that when they did these studies on vitamin C and immunity. The higher that you took the higher dosage, the better your immunity was, the less likely you were get sick, even at the 12 gram dosage.  Right. So, and I found that fascinating because you speak to a biochemist and they’re like, no, it’s not possible. Right. You can, you’re just gonna pee it out. Right. But I’m just like, I don’t, you know, I feel the difference. Right. Like it’s clear in all these parameters.

Dr. Weitz: Had I had a similar experience with zinc and thyroid and my TSHI tried taking high-dose iodine and my TSH went up to 25 and I ha I kept coming up with low zinc, even though I was taking zinc and then I took a genetic test to find out I can’t absorb zinc that well and I had to take more zinc and my TSH went down to five.

Joe: Right. And same actually, you mentioned zinc. I had the [00:47:00] same experience. My genetic results show that I have a higher need for zinc and. Was eating. I remember I was eating a lot of meat, just like, I mean, you know, I was on a, like a paleo diet. Paleo, yeah. Yeah. And I, so I’m eating a lot of meat and my zinc was low.   I’m like, what the hell is going on here? Right. And, you know, then I started taking zinc. Ever since I’ve been taking 10 milligrams I was taking more. But then the zinc went a little high. I found 10 milligrams, actually the right dosage for me, long term. Right. But that’s with a high meat diet.  Imagine if you are not eating a high meat diet. Right. I mean, like, if you know, it’s you’re,

Dr. Weitz: it’s gonna be really hard to get a good level of zinc depending upon what your body needs.

Joe: Yeah. So I’ve had so many experiences where you hear the RDA for a nutrient is one thing, and then my experience is completely [00:48:00] different.

I’ve experienced, I could tell you all the nutrients I’ve experienced this with thymine. Yeah. B one. So that’s when I took it. Like, I was like, oh, I’m getting meat. Meat has thymine. You’re like, yeah, I’m getting enough thymine. Right. Then I, and then even when I was taking like 10 milligrams of thymine, which is more than the two milligrams you need, right.

I still was like I felt like, you know what, like, ’cause the effect that you get from thymine increases gaba. I said, you know what? It feels like I have too much glutamate. So I took more thymine and I just felt that relaxation and I just felt like, okay, that was, that hit the spot. That’s what I was missing.

Right. Niacin was something that you know, they tell you not to take more than like 20 milligrams a day. Yeah. Right. And I realized that first of all, niacin also helps convert glutamate. It all, it reduces glutamate, increases serotonin, and it improved all my food sensitivities when I took [00:49:00] higher doses

Dr. Weitz: By the way, it also lowers your LP little a, it helps make small, dense LDL larger particles

Joe: That I didn’t notice.  The, it did not lower my LP little a even though there’s some studies for that. Well, partly because you have to take a lot of it, like 2,500 milligrams. You, well, not that much, but maybe 2000, whatever. But it, the smaller stuff, the smaller doses weren’t working for me. Right. And even the larger doses, like I’d say I was taking 1500 milligrams at the max, it was causing some issues with insulin resistance and some other things.

So I, right. Now I go down to just like two, 300. Right. But it made a huge difference. Niacin was huge. I also took a test with the choda had poor mitochondrial function and after I took niacin, it was like a, you know, switch turned on like energy. Crazy. My mitochondria started working right from niacin.

Dr. Weitz: What test was that for? The mitochondria you took?

Joe: It’s, it was actually a European one. It was like this bio, I gotta look it up, but it was Oh, okay. It was funny ’cause I actually discovered that I needed niacin at the same time. I got that result right before I got the result. And their main recommendation was just niacin.  Right, right. But I realized I needed niacin part in part through symptoms, conditions, genetics, like all these. And in lab testing, my phosphorus was high, my serum phosphorus.

Dr. Weitz: Okay. I

Joe: said I was looking for what can reduce serum phosphorus. It turns out a hundred milligrams niacin. Reduces serum phosphorus by quite a lot, and if you have serum phosphorus that’s gonna cause cardiovascular disease, all a whole bunch of different issues.

So I said, okay, let me try it. I try a hundred milligrams. I was like, whoa, I’m getting so much energy from this thing. And it was just like a light switch turn. And then I realized, hey, niacin’s also involved in food sensitivities and all these things. And so it just, it all just started clicking together [00:51:00] and now I take it every day and it’s you know, it’s incredible.

It’s a game changer. Again, you look at the RDA, what is it like 15 milligrams a day or something, like, it’s just a joke. Yeah. Cool. And so yeah, basically you go down the board of like different kinds of nutrients. And I just realized like none of this RDA stuff is relevant at all.

Dr. Weitz: I totally agree with you.  So we’re gonna need to wrap in a few minutes here. How about a give us one of your favorite longevity hacks.

Joe: Ooh, one of my favorite longevity hacks.

Dr. Weitz: There’s so many out there people using NED precursors, they’re using there there’s so many new that are constantly coming up.

Well,

Joe: Let me just start with, I think data is critical because I think longevity, number one is longevity. The people who are centenarians, they live to a hundred because they just prevent the d they don’t get [00:52:00] the diseases of like, Alzheimer’s, cardiovascular, they just push it off by 20 years, right?  So instead of living to 80, you live to a hundred, right? So I think number one is data, right? So genetics, lab testing, they’re gonna predict what you’re gonna get in the future. I think number one is you have, you can’t talk about longevity without talking about the data piece. Right. But now if we just want to talk about what are like my hacks for longevity I do take rapamycin.  Oh, okay.

Dr. Weitz: Once a week or what?

Joe: Less because I do notice there’s some side effects with rapamycin. Okay. So rapamycin, if I take it once a week, I will get sick more often. Okay. No question about it. Yeah. It is immune suppressant. So, yes. What I try to do is probably I have to take it strategically when I’m not traveling.

And maybe like once every three weeks instead of once a week. Okay. Or else you are [00:53:00] gonna start getting more of those side effects. But I do notice that the rapamycin helped with my food sensitivities as well, so there’s other benefits to it. Yeah. So I, I think that’s a good one. Rapamycin is the most studied one.

There’s one that I recently, there’s two of them that I recently started that I think are good and y you know about the ITP with, they study the mice for longevity agents. Yeah. Yeah. So I follow that mostly. Okay. I’m taking all the things that have been proven to work there or, and my, on my set least.

Right. Okay. So, and the ones that I noticed. The effects that I like first of all, I take Canagliflozin, which is an anti-diabetic drug. Okay. And one thing I noticed from that is it, my hba one C before was like 5.3. 5.4 went down to five. Okay. So it, it did the job without any side effects. So you just pee out more glucose, pretty much.

[00:54:00] Right. Unless you have a urin, you’re predisposed urinary tract infections, that’s pretty much the only issue there. Right. Because you’re peeing out more glucose. But so I just pee out more glucose. And, but also my fasting glucose was always between 90 and 110. Oh, okay. ’cause I’m on a low carb diet.

Yeah. And usually it’s like hovers around a hundred. With the canagliflozin it went down to 85. Right. So even though my HBA one C was normal, fasting still was not normal. And, the Coga Flowin help with that. So, that’s for me, again, I’m giving you examples of things that I wouldn’t rec necessarily recommend to other people.

Because if, for example, if you don’t have any food sensitivities or any sterile inflammation, I don’t know if rapamycin is the best approach, you might get sick too much. Right. And if you don’t have any blood sugar, if your blood sugar is optimal already you might have that great genetic predisposition for great blood [00:55:00] sugar.

I don’t know how much the canagliflozin is going to do. You better. Right. Like generally the lower the blood sugar the better, but there is diminishing returns at a certain point.

Dr. Weitz: Sure. You don’t want it to go below 70 or 60.

Joe: Right. Exactly. Then I also take a carbos. Okay. And I take that because, also it was shown to help in the ITP and there’s no side effects. It just blocks the absorption of glucose. That didn’t have as big of an effect for me. ’cause I’m already on a low carb diet. So that was minimal, but still something. And if you want a natural one, it would just be like white kidney bean extract.

It’s gonna have a similar effect. So I’ll actually switch off if I can’t get the drug. Okay. And then the other ones like glycine I do very well with and astaxanthin. So glycine is an interesting one. What I found is I’ve been taking it for like 15 years, but I only recently realized that it was a rate limiting factor for collagen production [00:56:00] from before It wasn’t.

Okay. So when you’re basically, I’ve been bopping around like different time periods in my life. Different things were rate limiting factors for collagen. So when you’re not getting enough niacin or like there’s certain nutrients that if you’re not getting enough of, like if you don’t have enough cystine or if you don’t have enough what are some of the, like, there’s a whole bunch of them.

If you don’t have enough sulfur or vitamin C, those could be the rate limiting factors. Right? Right. And so up until recently, glycine was not my rate limiting factor. And so when I took glycine, I didn’t notice anything. Right. Recently it was the rate limiting factor. And when I took it, I all of a sudden noticed, first of all, it made me a lot more calm because you know, basically it’s just taking the glutamate out and turning it into you know, glutathione, right?

So it’s taking the glutamate out and turning it to glutathione. So, what I’d say is like this, I mean, honestly, you asked about the longevity hacks. Then I would say the last things I, I do take, so [00:57:00] I, the things that I do take are very geared towards me. So I will take a PCSK nine inhibitor.

Okay. But I don’t recommend that. But that’s only because I have high lipoprotein A and high A LB. Right? If you don’t have that, then I don’t, I would not take it. Right. And actually studies show that the people who the PCSK nine inhibitor helps the most is the people who have also higher lipoprotein A.

So I think all these things plus a lot more, I’m just giving you a small sample, are helping me with longevity, but I cannot say that they would help other people. If you’re gonna get more sick from rapamycin right then. And by the way if I think when they’re doing these studies on mice, these mice are not traveling across the globe,

Dr. Weitz: right?

Yeah. Yeah. So the point is personalized care, the right the right recommendations for the right person at the right time.

Joe: Yeah. And I wanted to give specific examples of what I’m actually doing for myself, right? But I want to be careful that this is [00:58:00] not a pro a protocol for other people, right?

It’s kind of like each, with longevity it’s also very personalized, right? You gotta find what are the main things. I have a risk for cardiovascular disease genetically with the. Bad biomarkers, I have to do this. There’s no, it’s not a question for me. It, you know, whereas if I didn’t have the predisposition on and I didn’t have the biomarkers, it would be a completely different story.

And then I have a, my pharmacogenetic result came back and I have muscle pain from statins, which actually I already knew ’cause I tried three different statins and Right. All of them caused muscle pain.

Dr. Weitz: Cool. So, how can listeners patients practitioners find out about your TE DDNA testing?

Joe: They could go to self decode.com.

Okay. And yeah, there’s yeah, they could. Look at all the information there about the DNA test. And I really think that it’s the, yeah, it’s, with one test, you could really get so many pieces of data. It’s 200 million [00:59:00] data points that you could use for so many different things. And

Dr. Weitz: did you say there’s a separate login for practitioners?

A separate? There is.

Joe: I mean, it’s still gonna, right now it’s still on self decode.com. You’ll always be able to get there, but we’re going to put it on a different site just because eventually, like, probably in a few months, one or two months because there is a different platform. I just think that the the reason why we were separating is just because self decode is more like for biohackers, right?

Right. A regular person who wants to do a genetic test that’s not a biohacker. Should probably go through a doctor, right? Like, or a health coach or somebody, you know, like Right. Somebody that’s gonna guide them. Right. And so if you look at self decode, it’s like there’s a lot of like, you know, you could see it’s geared to biohackers, but the practitioner side is not related to biohackers.

I think it’s the other end of it where you’re, you know, the biohacker is somebody who’s just gonna be trying all these things on their own without guidance [01:00:00] sometimes. Right? Sometimes with, but most people are not biohackers and they need these practitioners. So I think there’s relevant, like I would say I’m a biohacker I take, you know, over 160 supplements a day and p you know, when you Yeah.

160 supplements and pharmaceuticals. And I’m like really going through all this stuff on my own and, you know, I speak to doctors a lot, but the idea is that people are not like, you know, I see most people, they need people to guide them. Absolutely.

Dr. Weitz: Okay, great. Thank you so much, Joe.

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Thank you for making it all the way through this episode of the Rational Wellness Podcast.  For those of you who enjoy listening to the Rational Wellness Podcast, I would very much appreciate it if you could go to Apple Podcast or Spotify and give us a five star readings and review. As you may know, I continue to accept a limited number of new patients per month for functional medicine. If you would like help overcoming a gut or other chronic health condition and wanna prevent chronic problems and wanna promote longevity, please call my Santa Monica Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition office at 310-395-3111 and we can set you up for a consultation for functional medicine and I will talk to everybody next week.